Author Topic: Wings magazine on the Luftwaffe  (Read 905 times)

Offline RAM

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« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2000, 04:28:00 PM »
1-Stalin trusted Hitler. To a very big point. He thought that Hitler was a maniac and one to be dealt with sooner or later, but he signed the non agression treaty with Germany and thought that it would last.

In 1940 the USSR purchased a half-finished german cruised of the Hipper class (the Lutzow). They also bought the German KM the optical rangefinder destined to Bismarck's Anton turret, along with the Bismarck's original drawings of the class design for a huge ammount of money.

In short, in 1940 german-russian relations can be called as a "friendship".

When Germans launched barbarossa Stalin felt deeply treasoned and took that as a direct and personal insult of Hitler towards him.

That's the reason he wanted at all costs to capture Hitler alive, and that is the reason that after the soviet troops found his remnants he was so suspicions and ordered so many investigations year after year. He was sure that Hitler had played another trick on him, escaping while making Stalin believe that he was dead. Today we know that Hitler commited suicide in his bunker and then was burned by SS troops, for sure. Stalin died still fearing that his archenemy was still alive.

2-Hitler really felt he could seize Poland with no response from the Western powers. After all he had played that trick...how many times?...Rhineland, Austria, Sudetenland, Chzekia (Spell?), Slovakia...He had broken the Versalles treaty with no problems, and he just had signed a non agression pact with USSR. He felt that he could do another step. But he was wrong,as we all know.

3-When France fell, it was surprising for all. For the french fer sure, for the British, too.
But the Germans may well have been the most surprised guys of all them. They were SO surprised that in effect for nearly month and a half they did not know what to do!...
There was no plans for anything, there was no clue of what to do...Hitler Figured that UK would sue for peace but he became angry when he saw that this was not the case.

Sealion was designed in a hurry, an ill-planed invasion that very likely would had been a german disaster.

Churchill wanted to keep the war on, as most british people. They did, they went through nearly a year of dark times waging war semialone against two countries (Semialone because for me USA was in the war as soon as in 1940 with the transfer of the 50 DDs and the lend-lease law). And they won the war.


And BTW, regarding the polish incident, the british cared nothing about the polish people. That was well shown later in 1943 when the Katyin massacre came to the light, and even more in 1944 when Warsaw rebellion happened, with the russian troops only a few dozens of miles away. The soviets didnt move a finger (surely they were smiling at the spectacle, as their most hated enemies were holding an insurrection from polish nationalists...so the germans were doing the work that the soviets would've had to do later... )

The british never asked them to move a finger. Understabily the Polish government in the Exile was quite pissed. The reason for the 1939 Declaration of war was because France and England had agreed that they wont pass another Hitler trick.They felt treasoned because they truly thought after the munich talks in 1938 that Hitler's ambitions were fulfitted.

 If Hitler had tried to seize, say, Txikitisland   instead of Poland, the result would've been the same: a war.


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-23-2000).]

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2000, 05:22:00 PM »
RAM, Churchill first asked Stalin to intervene in the Warsaw rising on Aug 5. He continued requesting Stalins help for the Poles until Aug 26, when he asked Roosevelt to join him in demanding Stalin aid the Poles. Roosevelt refused.

Offline RAM

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« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2000, 06:00:00 PM »
Humm...really?...I've not read a lot about this (one or two WWII encyclopaedias, and the warsaw insurrection was only a small chapter in both)

Pliz can you tell me where to read what you say?...always thought that the Brits remained still (not too strange if you remember that Stalin was seen as few less than a hero in Britain during WWII)


[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 11-23-2000).]

LJK Raubvogel

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« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2000, 06:48:00 PM »
OT, but interesting discussion. You folks have to remember that everyone writes history differently.

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Offline Fariz

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« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2000, 06:55:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by RAM:
1-Stalin trusted Hitler. To a very big point. He thought that Hitler was a maniac and ...

Not quite true. That all is a dated western historic science opinion on the pre-war situation. Last few years, after USSR archives were opened to the historians, it were several very interesting works about that matter. Did not you ask yourself how LW could deal so deadly blow to the VVS in the first days of war? That is cause 95% of VVS planes were located very close to the USSR/German border. Soviet devisions were consentrated very close to the border too. Stalin's line (defensive by its nature) was partly disinstalled. It were printed by war ministry millions of the detailed maps of european countries, but NONE (again NONE) of the USSR territory, so when war started officers could not command troops because they simply did not had maps. Even after months of war troops had a terrible needs for maps. It is tons of other facts that shows that USSR were couple of weeks from starting full-scale aggression against Germany. That is one of the reason of the terrible loses of the first days of war. Army which is configured to the attack is unballanced and the easy target for a sudden strong blow.

"Stalin trusted Hitler!" You simply had not read enough about Stalin. I advice you to read more about him, in my opinion he is much more Evil than Hitler, and much more gineous when it comes to the questions of the Big Strategy. And he was paranoic to the much greater scale that Hitler. It is still unknown how many soviets exactly died during Stalin's time, but numbers are around 20-35 millions (not including numbers of war loses). Those who think that concentration camps are the invention of nazies are very far from the truth, they were used by the Soviets much earlier in the greater scale (actually they were invented by the Lord Kitchiner, and firstly used by Brits in the Anglo-Burs war, but that is another story). And he trusted absolutly nobody. Yes, when aggression started he was stunned, and for several week he fell into a bad depression. But that is more like the strong chess player is stunned when he is two moves out of mating his opponent, and sees that he is under 1 move mate himself! He was stund with the crash on his plans, he saw the whole Europe under the commies.

Fariz


Offline hblair

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« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2000, 11:23:00 AM »
Gotta read that one!

Offline Suave1

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« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2000, 11:43:00 AM »
Lmao ! Germany was tricked into invading poland !

That should be in the "Post your best joke" thread .

Offline Kats

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« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2000, 02:08:00 PM »
Actually, Hitler was NOT tricked into attacking Poland, but miko is right about Hitler thinking it wouldn't have started ww2.

The British at the time thought that Germany and Poland would come to an agreement regarding Danzig and the corridor. As a matter of fact, British public opinion favored Germany over this particular issue.

As far as Mein Kampf, the only thing that proved was that Hitler had absolutely no convictions except for his antisematism.

He was an opportunist, nothing more. History gives him too much credit. Hitler's success was due primarily to only one virtue - patience.