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Author Topic: ww2 trivia  (Read 884 times)

Offline SLO

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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2004, 08:33:19 PM »
Admiral Gensoul refused, fearing that the German Wehrmacht would retaliate by destroying many innocent French people.



http://www.angelfire.com/ia/totalwar/MersElKebir.html

I'm only gonna post 1 link....and thats an English POV....not even gonna go in the French POV

you can do the rest...

and no lets not get into a pissin contest....you did open my eyes to more info though....thx

and sorry for the remarks(stupidity etc. etc.)
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Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2004, 08:40:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
Admiral Gensoul refused, fearing that the German Wehrmacht would retaliate by destroying many innocent French people.



http://www.angelfire.com/ia/totalwar/MersElKebir.html

I'm only gonna post 1 link....and thats an English POV....not even gonna go in the French POV

you can do the rest...

and no lets not get into a pissin contest....you did open my eyes to more info though....thx

and sorry for the remarks(stupidity etc. etc.)


Thanks for the link Slo, It doesn't support the notion that the Germans threatened the French though, and unfortunately it doesn't offer a source. I'll look around, but will defer to what I've already done for the most part.

I'm honestly not busting anyone's balls here, like I said, it is simply something I've never heard before. Thanks for the help.

-Sik
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Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2004, 08:45:25 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
I don't know if it was used in this incident, but the Nazis often used the "if you don't do this we can't guarantee the safety of your family" blackmail on people and even German officers who were resisting the Nazis. Rommel was instructed to commit suicide under this threat.


Yeah, I wouldn't find it shocking, I mean, they were Nazi's after all lol.

-Sik
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Offline SLO

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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2004, 08:53:38 PM »
thats it G-man....

thats the story I always heard....threats where made...usually history omits those parts
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Offline demaw1

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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2004, 09:06:13 PM »
Thanks to each of you it was very interesting to read i have only two responses.
   1. slo  i have not heard of the things you have said i would like to respectively reply.I dont know if this happened do i think it is possible...if it was from the japenese it would be a given... yes i think the threat could have been made because the germans had no respect for the french or the russians or a few more countries. From other books i have read they would not have given americans or british that altimatum ,but then the british or the americans of that day would never have surrendered. .Nevertheless they did have a choice,that choice was to do what was right which was to turn those guns on the germans,U see way to many french fell in with the germans .In a nutshell the french seem to have a hard time thru out history of  decerning evil and they are still that way today.
2. g scholz, why did the germans send them out on sorties would it not have been better to keep both battleships together along with some support ships and with in range of land based air.They could have patroled the whole shore line out to 200 300 miles which would have made it hard to get any help ashore.they should have won some of the battles they loss to.
 anyway thanks to all again.
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Offline SLO

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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2004, 09:20:13 PM »
During WW2 the Germans developped a new form of Battle.....also known as a BlitzKrieg

the French where on the receiving end of that form of Battle....not many countries could resist that type of battle in 1939....

many Russians paid dearly....but they did have time too prepare....same for the English.

The French made the mistake of believing they wouldn't attack...they made the wrong assumption....and paid for it
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Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2004, 03:07:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SLO
The French made the mistake of believing they wouldn't attack...they made the wrong assumption....and paid for it


Also the French generals made the mistake of thinking that their line was gonna stop an invasion if they were attacked.
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2004, 05:41:11 PM »
Thank sickboy to havde pointed me this gem :)
Quote
Originally posted by demaw1
The largest surface battle in the atlantic during ww2 was between the american navy and french navy.The american navy sunk all french ships and suffered 2 damaged ships some wounded but none killed.The french navy opened fire first......


I don't see anything naval when one of the boat is dry docked.

I don't see any honour in this action either.
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Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2004, 07:31:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Thank sickboy to havde pointed me this gem :)
 

I don't see anything naval when one of the boat is dry docked.

I don't see any honour in this action either.


Straffo! My hero!

This is the most facinating aspect of the European war in my opinion. I've read quite a bit on the subject. The problem though, is that my French is almost as bad as my Swahili. That sort of removes a lot of the story, since only select texts get translated. I've really only had De Gualle to help me understand the problem from the French side, and he neglects to mention anything about threats against the French Sailors families.

But the good news is, I have a friend here who is fluent in French, so I have a chance to expand my background. So... Do you have, or could you find a good recomendation for getting the French POV, and especially anything that deals with Nazi threats against the French Sailors Families?

-Sik
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2004, 08:37:48 PM »
hu ?
Who speak of only the sailors familly ?

The fear they had was not for their familly but for ALL the citizen of the thier country. Before Mers El Kebir in the Navy (a contrario to the army) their was a trend who wanted to continue the fight and disobey Vichy and before Mers El Kebir this trend was gaining influence...

This trend was destroyed by Mers El Kebir ,"the british have done something even the German won't had thought off"

It's not my word it's what the press printed at this time.

I'm more circumspect,I'm lucky to not had any familly in Mers El Kebir I've a friend who was unlucky to loose some member and after more than 60 year he find easy to pardon a German than a britannic :(

Actually I don't know of any book about Mers El Kebir and what was the impact onf French sailors I'll ask my Navy friend if he know some :)
(as you can guess I'm more interested by the thing that fly than the things that float and sink :D)


btw I'm  sorry for my previous post but Demaw1 seem to
irrate me quite easily I need to learn to ignore his posts.

Now If I can find a wait to sleep ...it's 4:35 AM and I'm working today :(
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2004, 08:46:47 PM »
A last think , here the right wing nut say in their nationnalistic/xenophobic speechs :
...the Jew have crucified Jesus, the british have burned Joan of Arc and sunk the fleet at Mers El Kebir ...

it's still a scar that hurt...
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Offline demaw1

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« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2004, 10:46:54 PM »
straffo
 
   Already told ya ,when someone replys with a snotty reply to a mild debate,that someone has been bitten by the truth of the statement,and wishs not to embrace truth.
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2004, 03:01:22 AM »
whatever...



@sikboy
I've searched some references and phoned some friends to give me some more references and I awaiting some new soon.

look here : http://histgeo.free.fr/mek.html (in French)

Meanwhile a friend of mine pointed me 2 sites where  you can read to see the war from the perspective of an average french soldier
1st one :
http://www.duhamel.bz/souvenir/1940.htm
http://www.duhamel.bz/souvenir/1942.htm
2nd one
http://titanne.free.fr/alger_1940_fr.html
http://titanne.free.fr/casa_fr.html


I've just spoke to a friend who is a former sailor in French navy to give you a bit more insight he did say :
"The USA got had one tragedie : Pearl Harbor , we got two : Mers El Kebir and Casablanca."

As you can guess it's still 60 later a very sensitive subject.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2004, 04:17:35 AM by straffo »
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Offline straffo

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« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2004, 07:33:26 AM »
You're vey lucky sikboy :) I've found a pretty article in english !

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/articles/merselkebir.aspx

Note that I don't agree fully with this analysis but it's 95% correct IMO.
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