HO Please explain why

[Redd]

Originally posted by TheBeeg
No, no, no Redd, you may have misunderstood what I said or maybe I didn't express it correctly.  I don't go looking for the HO (e.g. maneuver to get in front of you), I just don't shy away from it because of some taboo which still eludes me.  One person (forgive me, I forgot who) mentioned that somewhere in the help it might be explained but everybody else is still talking about why they do it or why they don't but nobody has said something to the effect that it gives this guy or that guy the advantage because the packets go backwards when you're higher than your oponent or something like that.  What I will say is that unless somebody can prove to me that because of some definitive reason the HO shot is unsportsmanslike then come at me directly and you get a mouth full of lead, ok?
Beeg

Ok, understand what you are saying better now. No I don't shy away from it because of what anyone whines on ch 1 or because of any unwritten code, but I do shy away from it . I don't whine on Ch1 when people  do take them either - it's their 15 bucks.


But

 
If someone is flying straight at me  and coming straight for my nose, the last thing I would do is go for a HO shot, and if you are taking that shot  opportunity you are missing out on better options.

If he is flying straight at you to go for the HO  - even better , let him take the shot , avoid it and go for the angles , the %'s will be way in your favour in the long term.
 
Remember that everyone that is flying straight at you is not necessarily doing it to HO you (even though it can seem like it some days) they are flying at you with the intention of merging, gaining advantage/angles and then trying to kill you. That is my intention everytime I fly towards another plane ( doesn't always work of course  ..lol)


So I guess in summary , I am still saying , yes you should shy away from HO's , but not for taboos and whiners, for your own benefit and advantage.

[Grits]

Originally posted by TheBeeg
How come somebody like me who has over 3,000 hrs. flying in real airplanes doesn't get any benefit whatsoever in these sims huh?

Because, and this is a recurring theme in your posts, this is not real life, it is a video game. A very good video game, but a game nonetheless.

RE: HO's, I rarely take or get hit by HO's because if it has come to that, I have done something horribly wrong to put myself in that position to begin with. If I am in the middle of a fight and a front quarter shot comes along, I take those, but "fly straight and level firing guns from 1.5k out" shots I dont.

[Eagler]

you take the shot you are given

one on one with a pilot I know will not take the Ho, I will refrain & t&b

--- that said, it is usually not the case

some ppl think any shot from their 11 to 1 oclock quarter is a HO, even after a loop or two

when out numbered and I have gonds (maybe a 30mm in the nose) - head on at your own risk

[storch]

I seldomly HO straight on since Shane taught me a few moves when I was even noobier.  Here's the funny thing, I'm often accused of HOing when making a frontal quarter low deflection shot!!!!! I'm a pretty good deflection shooter and I actually like that shot because it's easy to gauge, hits often produce coolant/oil hits and a pilot wound to boost!!!!! What could be better than that?  Oh, wait I remember!!!! In the Hurricane that often times creates a very gratifying *poof* as well.  Shoot'm anyway you can taunt them irrespective of the outcome,  It's the AH way no sense in bucking tradition.

[Edbert]

I think that true HOs only happen on long range merges, after the merge they are not HOs unless one plane extends dramatically. Once you are engaged, a face shot is not really a HO, it just means you got the angle a little faster than your enemy.

With that definition in mind I try to steer clear of the HO too. Largely for the reasons stated already but I wanted to add two small points.

1.) There are some guys in this game that are absolute snipers with their own HO shots. I have had the engine shot out of my Jug by a 109 pilot from extreme range. By all accounts the P47 should seek  the Ho with the 109, but you never know who is on the other end of that HO and how good a shot they might be. Which leads me to reason number two.

2.) Other than trying to get your guns pointed at the enemy plane, the other half of ACM is trying to keep out of the enemies gun quadrant. Since nearly all fighter guns are fixed in a forward firing situation, almost half of the fight is to stay out of that cone. If you see him pointing at you, you should try to get out of his LOF not hold steady and stay in it.

...but thats just me...

[Halo]

(QUOTE) HO Please explain why (UNQUOTE)

1.  To kill quickly when you have superior armament.

2.  To annoy those who consider themselves superior sticks.

3.  To sustain the game's superior thread.  

4.  To kamikaze a superior opponent.

[TheBug]

Some people prefer sex with men, some people prefer HOs.  I'm not gonna tell either one they shouldn't do it.  But that doesn't mean I shall partake in it.

Let people play the game they want, play it the way you want.  If you can't find a happy medium then you're better off finding another game.

[TheBeeg]

Thanks Halo;

Not technical but  most definetely reasons for why which is what I asked.  I am more than ever convinced that the HO Taboo is solely an urban leyend not based on any kind of scientifically proven fact that it enhances or detracts from a players advantage.  I suspect that just as in real life the outcome is decided strictly by who lands the greatest number of bullets on target.  

Beeg

P.S. I will admit that it is a 50/50 proposition as to whether you're going to come out smiling or toothless.

Originally posted by Halo
(QUOTE) HO Please explain why (UNQUOTE)

1.  To kill quickly when you have superior armament.

2.  To annoy those who consider themselves superior sticks.

3.  To sustain the game's superior thread.  

4.  To kamikaze a superior opponent.

[o0Stream140o]

Originally posted by Redd

If someone is flying straight at me  and coming straight for my nose, the last thing I would do is go for a HO shot, and if you are taking that shot  opportunity you are missing out on better options.

If he is flying straight at you to go for the HO  - even better , let him take the shot , avoid it and go for the angles , the %'s will be way in your favour in the long term.
 
Remember that everyone that is flying straight at you is not necessarily doing it to HO you (even though it can seem like it some days) they are flying at you with the intention of merging, gaining advantage/angles and then trying to kill you. That is my intention everytime I fly towards another plane ( doesn't always work of course)

Wise man here....

First person to act on the merge will 75% chance of wining the fight... you have gained the angles you need to win...

I actually yell at my guys at practice for trying to take the Head On... I will break them of this one day... but I can't watch them all the time.  

But I don't take the Head On... but that is just my opinion...

Stream

[Redd]

Originally posted by TheBeeg
Thanks Halo;

Not technical but  most definetely reasons for why which is what I asked.  I am more than ever convinced that the HO Taboo is solely an urban leyend not based on any kind of scientifically proven fact that it enhances or detracts from a players advantage.  I suspect that just as in real life the outcome is decided strictly by who lands the greatest number of bullets on target.  

Beeg

P.S. I will admit that it is a 50/50 proposition as to whether you're going to come out smiling or toothless.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say. Why accept a 50/50 outcome  ?

I give up  

I tell you what , do one thing  - pop in a see Ghosth sometime - he is a very good instructor and very experienced.  Ask him whether not pursuing/taking head-ons is sensible ACM or urban taboo.


Anyway   have fun  

[Redd]

Originally posted by Halo
(QUOTE) HO Please explain why (UNQUOTE)

1.  To kill quickly when you have superior armament.

2.  To annoy those who consider themselves superior sticks.

3.  To sustain the game's superior thread.  

4.  To kamikaze a superior opponent.

I have to assume this is tongue in cheek.

[Arlo]

Smoke em if ya got em ... or dont.

Ho's are generally a mutual voluntary thang anyhoo. Two knights on their winged stallions make eye contact at 5k or so and it's love at first sight.

(Switch to slow-mo clip of two pilots in flightgear running for each other in a flowery meadow blowing lead laced kisses at each other the entire way until one or both of them either fall to pieces or not. Maybe they collide in a firely embrace!)

Nonononononono! This won't do! Let's switch to an alternate ending!

(Switch to slow-mo clip of two pilots ... one in flightgear and one dressed as a matador .... )

[muerto]

IMO, if you're in a merge (initial or otherwise) that is HO or nearly so, and you think you can get the HO shot without putting yourself in extreme danger (you have nose mounted cannons and you know he doesn't so you can shoot at long range, then dodge his shot; or you are off center but can stomp a rudder and line him up as you pass, etc...) and you don't take the shot; you're a fool.

It's like not taking a snapshot because you think it's somehow inferior to having manuevered around in a furball to a bogey's 6 before shooting.

A kill is a kill is a kill; whether by HO, snapshot, blind lead turn, BnZ on the unsuspecting furballer, or having manuevered in a furball to a bogey's rear quarter as he nears the top of an oblique turn for which he really didn't have the energy an shows his planform at D200 right in the center of my sights so I get to see my guns shred his aircraft to pieces, or even explode just before I stall and spin out of control.  They all feel good; although the kills where you get to see pieces falling off the NME are the most satisfying.