Another set of tactic questions

[humble]

I've been struggling with there 38 (here and always  )..anyway was in the training arena with RWY and we flew some 38/spit and spit/38 1 on 1's...I'm hard pressed to figure any way the 38 can engage spit (or 109,nikki,205,pony or La5) without a significant advantage.

Later citabria bounced me in MA we had a good fight and he extended once he had used his extra e up...but did extend and reverse for round 2...but in the end it was a draw.

I'd love some comments from those of you who can successfully use 38 in equal engagements...or is it really strictly a B&Z fighter here?

[Kieren]

I've flown RWY quite a bit in the TA... you didn't mention how he came out when he was 38 and you Spit? I would assume you won?

I wouldn't play the Spit game. Don't engage without an alt advantage. Don't get pulled into a turn fight. Smack and climb (or run). You can roll faster at speed, so use that against the Spit. I guess I think of the 38 as a 51 that can turn.  

I have to pile some more time up in it before I can add anything else.

[Jekyll]

If I'm in a P38 co-e with an enemy spit, my actions will depend on how the fight starts.

If he's bouncing me from my rear quarter I will just extend away from him and eventually outclimb him (even if I have to take the fight up to 30k)

But if the fight starts in a roughly head-on situation I'll intentionally give him a bit of lateral separation to start with.

The majority of spit drivers see that they can grab instant angles on you and pull hard for a lead turn.  If he starts his lead turn I'll do a gentle turn towards him, forcing him to pull extra g's and continue his turn in an attempt to get onto my 6.

Now he will have gained mucho angles on me after the merge, but will have bled off a whole heap of his airspeed in his turn.  Time for the P38 to go pure vertical, and there is nothing in the game at the moment that can zoom climb like a P38.

Spit driver now has the option of trying to zoom with you, in which case you hammerhead onto him and kill him, or extend for airspeed in which case you convert your climb into a substantial energy advantage and BnZ him to death.



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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

[Sharky]

Thank you Jekyll,

Couldn't have said it better myself  .  Humble. There may be one or two really good Spit pilots out there, but most I have seen will go for the HO and/or flat turn to your six.  When they do the fight is over.  Like Jekyll said, a slight turn toward to make them pull even harder and when they start firing in the HO go straight vertical till at about 50 ias then rudder down and kill em.

Sharky

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You can run, but you just die tired.

[Westy]

ooops


[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-05-2000).]

[humble]

>>>But if the fight starts in a roughly head-on situation I'll intentionally give him a bit of lateral separation to start with.

The majority of spit drivers see that they can grab instant angles on you and pull hard for a lead turn. If he starts his lead turn I'll do a gentle turn towards him, forcing him to pull extra g's and continue his turn in an attempt to get onto my 6.<<<

Jekyll,

those were my thoughts exactly, at 1st when I was in the spit I used exactly those tactics you described for the 38..and easily gained E as RWY went for my 6...however when we reversed I found no way to do what you described..since the latest patch I've found the 38 to be inferior to the spit in the vertical. Obviously I recognize that there are far better pilots (especially in 38) than me in this game. I believe i've got these on film and would be happy to forward them to all interested for critique.

[wells]

A good technique to get the Spit to lose E, but unfortunately, your speed difference needs to be about 100 mph in order for a hammerhead to keep you out of guns range.

You really need to have the better climbing plane for that to work properly.  When the spit goes for it, you slowly enter a spiral climb and the spit is in trouble.  Alas, the Spit climbs and turns better than the P-38, so this won't work.  Perhaps against the George?  Best thing for P-38 vs Spit is pure B&Z, start with 3000' over him (1.0k), attack at your maximum speed to minimize your roll rate disadvantage at slower speeds.

Of course, it's always easier said than done!  

[Sharky]

Humble,

Email me the film, I'd like to see it.

Sharky

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You can run, but you just die tired.

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Jekyll:
If I'm in a P38 co-e with an enemy spit, my actions will depend on how the fight starts.

If he's bouncing me from my rear quarter I will just extend away from him and eventually outclimb him (even if I have to take the fight up to 30k)

But if the fight starts in a roughly head-on situation I'll intentionally give him a bit of lateral separation to start with.

What if he comes straight at you? I will normally line him up on my 2 or 10 and break-turn into him.
I take it you mean here that you both pass each other with some seperation - say D 2 or so.


 

Originally posted by Jekyll:

The majority of spit drivers see that they can grab instant angles on you and pull hard for a lead turn.  If he starts his lead turn I'll do a gentle turn towards him, forcing him to pull extra g's and continue his turn in an attempt to get onto my 6.

Im not good at following this sort of talk   This i take it means he now, after the merge turns sharp to get on your 6 while you pull a gentle turn to compound his turn- correct?

 

Originally posted by Jekyll:

Now he will have gained mucho angles on me after the merge, but will have bled off a whole heap of his airspeed in his turn.  Time for the P38 to go pure vertical, and there is nothing in the game at the moment that can zoom climb like a P38.

Now your (the p-38) is still fast and spit is slow, you can now climb and hope he follows you up  


 

Originally posted by Jekyll:

Spit driver now has the option of trying to zoom with you, in which case you hammerhead onto him and kill him, or extend for airspeed in which case you convert your climb into a substantial energy advantage and BnZ him to death.

If anyone gets a film of this send it to me please. I have the same probs as humble.

Thanx,


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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
 
=1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assualt Group=

[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 03-05-2000).]

[Robert]

i've got news for you guys! the TA and the MA are different! planes in the TA can ride around with 25% fuel and never run out were as on the MA you have to take more. not sure about this but i think planes in the TA hold there E better as well,
spit accelerates with 25% fuel very well but in the MA you have to take more. This is where you get the advantage in a 38 against a spit. Another thing 38 can't play the vertical against my spit never no matter what happens if the merge is co-e.
The best the 38 pilot can hope for is a frontal shot on the 2nd merge !

[Kieren]

Planes are the same in the TA, only the fuel modifier is different. The purpose of the TA is to experiment with flight and tactics under optimum conditions, so for this purpose it serves well.

A good 38 pilot can give a Spit pilot a hell of a fight, even under equal conditions. The thing is the 38 can't make a mistake, whereas the Spit can and survive. The trump card should be that the 38 can disengage at will, so the fight is up to them.  

[Citabria]

pre 1.2 patch you could go vertical and live. you could even turn with a spit9.

now in 1.2 if you bother turning at all with a spit you wont live long.

methinks turn performance has become incorrect with all this e subtraction on the p38.

[humble]

Citabria,

I've got our spit/38 duel on film, I thought you flew the 38 bout as well as anyone I've seen and even with the alt/e advantage I believe all you got was a couple of front aspect shots that scratched paint and 1 ding (airlion I think) and I dont consider myself more than middle of the road here, against any of the expertan I just don't see how you can win consistantly with 38..will it out run nikki/109 g10??

Sharky,

I'll email you clip(s) tonight

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 03-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by humble (edited 03-06-2000).]