Why the towers fell

[Sandman]

Excellent article at BBC explaining what killed the two towers.

It wasn't the aircraft or impact. It was the fire.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/americas/newsid_1540000/1540044.stm

[Hobodog]

Well in a way it was the aircraft because the cause was the fuel which did then catch on fire and cause the steel to melt.

[Pepe]

Which raises the same point for similar constructions all around the world, and the convenience of rebuilding the Twin Towers again. I concede that symbols are important, but we have been tought several important lessons, with blood.

Not only I think WTC should not be rebuilt, at least not as it was before, but I think it's time for a general movement for all about working & living in tall buildings is concerned.

Nice article, thks.

[Eagler]

real estate is too expensive NOT to rebuild the towers. You can't run around and live your life paraniod of the next terrorist act.
They will start construction on the new ones as soon as the last rumble of the old ones has been removed.

[AcId]

I believe that it would be an important symbol to rebuild them bigger and better than before. That then begs the question, what can we do to better design highrise buildings? Not just structuraly but advances in human evac should be made prior to any rebuild effort.

[Sandman]

I'm with you. I think we should rebuild the towers and make them even taller.

But... we must never forget that they will always remain vulnerable and they will again be a target.

The towers were a marvel of construction. They stood for almost an hour while the fires raged within. I rather doubt that we've learned so much about construction in the last 25 years that we could do much better.

And obviously, I agree and the article states it rather plainly. We should have simply evacuated the area. Our firemen and police were ill-prepared for the danger that awaited them in the doomed buildings.

We can chalk it up to lessons learned... I'm sure there will be many more (lessons) in the future.

[ 09-13-2001: Message edited by: Sandman_SBM ]

[Skuzzy]

Along with the rebuild,...there should be a memorial wall with every single persons name listed, grouped by thier country, that died in this horrble tragedy.
It should be on the first floor to act as a reminder for future generations of what happened here.  Never forget our tragedies or they can happen again.
Opposite that wall should be the list of heroes that rose above the tragedy to aid and help those that were in need.   The firefighters, the police, and a thank you to the citizens of the world that came in aid, whether in thought or other means.

[texace]

Here's how they should build back the WTC. Facing the Atlantic, from left to right (looking at the skyline from the sea) they need 5 towers. One 50 stories, one 65 stories, one 120 stories, one 70 stoties, and one 40 stories. And on a plate at the top of the tallest tower should read "Nice F**king Try Afgans!"

For those who don't get it, hold out you left hand, palm out, and give yourself the bird.
 

[Toad]

The thought that jumped out at me after reading this thing was two-fold:

One, CNN and the rest have made this a very small world, one in which experts are able to apprise every happening.

Two, why didn't the Professor get on the phone to NYPD and tell them to get the guys away from the building? Obviously, he knows what he's talking about and his bona fides could have been verified pretty fast. Wonder if that all happened? If not why not?

Just amazing that a guy that KNEW was appraised of the situation so quickly. We need to institute some form of "intelligence routing" for these disasters. A 1-800-HEL-PPP! line that can get the caller verified and in touch with the people on the front lines.

I know, wishful thinking.

[Maverick]

Toad,

They would not have listened. They would have gone in anyhow. There were people up there they had to try to get. hat is what makes heros, true heros. They weren't high paid athletes playig a silly little game. They were trying to save lives. They all knew it was a risk but NO ONE can be rescued unless you try. The crews out there now are in extreme danger but they are still there. You would be too.

Mav

[JoeDirt]

they wont be vulnerable if you put some 80mm ack on the top!!!          

and of corse gotta have good aim if it is hitting below; not to hit civ's. and the rest of NY

[eskimo2]

I am a trained firefighter an have a college degree in fire science.  

Most of the FDNY officers should have recognized that the structure was doomed and due for collapse, it is a basic part of their training.  
I am NOT saying that any of the officers screwed up...  The circumstances on Tuesday have never been face by any fire department, and the situation was mind-boggling.  
I even imagine that many or most of the officers had the presence of mind to understand the danger at hand, but choose to attack the fire instead of retreat.  Backing off and waiting for collapse was probably an unacceptable option for them because they knew that a huge loss of life would result.  

They knowingly gave their lives for a chance to save others.

FDNY has a long history and incredible reputation for bravery.  Their reputation for bravery is second to none.  A typical FDNY firefighter would take on the devil himself if he were spewing flames.  

There are fire-proof structural columns  available.
They are hollow, filled with water, and made of stainless steel to prevent rust.
They are outrageously expensive, but they work.
                        
eskimo

[Skuzzy]

Eskimo, I thought those fire-proof columns were lined with ceramics and filled with a special liquid mixture (silicone/glycol I beleive).
The ceramics help to dissipate the heat from the steel, and the liquid dissipates the heat throughout the length of the column stopping hot spots from occuring which lead to structural failure.
They are expensive, and typically heavier than the regular solid steel column.  They also have to be custom built for each application as the flanges where the cross members (joists) join have to be specially fitted to not allow rivets/bolts to pierce to the liquid core.

Not sure how effective they would have been here.  The heat was so intense and focused, they probably would have lasted longer, but may have still failed.  Of course, lasting longer in this case would have allowed more people to evacuate.

Hindsight....

[eskimo2]

Skuzzy:

I may be mistaken about those columns and I think your description of them is correct. It's been quite awhile since I have read about them.  Being glycol-filled sounds familiar (and makes sense). Then again there may be two or more different kinds of fire proof columns.

Anyway, the WTC will be rebuilt.
If they are re-built as skyskrapers, I bet they will take a good look at using fire proof columns.

eskimo

[AKDejaVu]

Toad... the firemen knew they were going into a very dangerous situation in regards to the structural stability of the building.  But these are, after all, people that are trained to run into a building that any sane person would be running out of.

As for the "reason"... it wasn't just one thing... it was a combination.  The blast was a major contributer itself.  Aplying any force opposite the designed load presents a problem.  The floors above the explosion were elevated and weakened.  Concrete fell and rebar was exposed.  The rest was simply a domino affect.

AKDejaVu