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Author Topic: Even the Department of Justice agrees  (Read 1417 times)

Offline Elfie

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2005, 06:00:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I would have ran and got my dad.


In the case of Ruby Ridge you would have stood a very real chance of being shot in the back as you ran screaming for your dad.

Quote
Just to make sure I got this right... The agent shot the dog, the kid shot at the agent, the agent killed the kid, then harris killed the agent. Is that the right sequence of events (as they are best known)? You can not shoot someone for killing your dog. That is what I mean by kids having guns is a disaster waiting to happen.


Sammy Weaver and Kevin Harris would not have needed to shoot if the agents had simply identified themselves. You are correct in the sequence of events as they are best known.

You really cant blame Kevin Harris and Sammy Weaver imo. They followed the dog thinking it might be chasing a deer, then suddenly there is gunfire that kills the dog. Sammy and Kevin thought they were going after dinner and instead were met with gunfire from an unknown person who was masked and wearing camoflage. Their actions in self defense were perfectly justified. The trial brought this out.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline bustr

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2005, 06:05:01 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I would have ran and got my dad.


My dad taught me to never "run"..............
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bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Raider179

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2005, 06:24:36 PM »
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Originally posted by bustr
My dad taught me to never "run"..............


when you are 6? from gunfire? Man thats hilarious. mine said if someone starts shooting get the **** out of there. lol
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Offline Elfie

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2005, 06:36:00 PM »
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Originally posted by Raider179
when you are 6? from gunfire? Man thats hilarious. mine said if someone starts shooting get the **** out of there. lol


How bad is the gang violence in Atlanta? Just wondering is all :)
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline bustr

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« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2005, 06:48:54 PM »
I've survived, I've never run, nor have any of the good O'l boys in my fathers family from Tennesse to Alabama since the 1700's. Many of them are buried around the world and on U.S. soil. All of them learned to hunt as soon as they could follow the hounds into the woods. If a child doesnt run at 6, he won't run as a man.

The motto "These Colors Don't Run" had a meaning once. It took teaching children not to run so as men they could stand and die for those colors if thats what it cost. You can make more children. You only get one shot at his experiment called Liberty and the United States. And I believe that's an absolutely meaningless and a very uncomfortable concept to many posters on this board..................none of my family can recall ever meeting an atheist in a foxhole.
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bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Dago

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2005, 06:54:35 PM »
Why would anyone argue with a Finnidiot about the US Constitution?

dago
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Raider179

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Even the Department of Justice agrees
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2005, 07:20:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bustr
I've survived, I've never run, nor have any of the good O'l boys in my fathers family from Tennesse to Alabama since the 1700's. Many of them are buried around the world and on U.S. soil. All of them learned to hunt as soon as they could follow the hounds into the woods. If a child doesnt run at 6, he won't run as a man.

The motto "These Colors Don't Run" had a meaning once. It took teaching children not to run so as men they could stand and die for those colors if thats what it cost. You can make more children. You only get one shot at his experiment called Liberty and the United States. And I believe that's an absolutely meaningless and a very uncomfortable concept to many posters on this board..................none of my family can recall ever meeting an atheist in a foxhole.


1) The south lost.

2) Yeah I guess getting shot in the back is defending liberty. What is this "you can make more children" that seems very callous. Its not like America is going to just be gone anytime soon. That kid died for no reason. Absolutely none. He died because of a mistake.

3)Yeah takes a real man of religion to kill other people. sheesh

4)How many firefights did you say you were in again? I didnt see you post it so I am gonna guess none.

5)We are talking about a 6 year old confronting 2 men with guns. Tell my kid to run, Damn right. That's not cowardice which is what you are inferring. You sacrificing children to somehow save liberty is disgraceful.
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2005, 07:22:31 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
How bad is the gang violence in Atlanta? Just wondering is all :)


Put it this way the news is no fun to watch here. Used to live in the city, would hear gunshots on a pretty regular basis(nightly, couple times a week). Moved to the outskirts now and its a lot calmer.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2005, 08:39:04 AM »
X files?  nope, never watched em but... I do watch history.   england and australia had to regester guns and guess what the government did with those lists.

There are many reasons to own firearms and it is really no ones business but your own until you do something illegal with them.

Ruby ridge and Waco were huge blunders for the government... they took unsympathetic people and turned them into martys and.... they were tied up for weeks in each event... two events each in 20 or 30 states would have had the government tied up completely... they would have had to act even more heavy handedly and caused even more incidents....  they most likely would have lost support from their own forces in that case.

Ruby ridge footage is interesting... the people outside the area where the government forces were gathereing were more than openly hostile toward the government forces.

These incidents were against people who had commited crimes and the sympathy went toward the victims.   Imagine if the excuse the government had for dozens of these actions was.... conrfiscation.

Ruby ridge and Waco caused less trust for government not more.   More people felt that the government shouldn't be the only ones armed not less.

Randy Weaver was given 3.1 million dollars by our government for the wrongful deaths caused by our benevolent government.

lazs
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2005, 08:43:49 AM »
and raider.... it is governments who do the most killing of citizens..  History shows us that they massacre their own people at a rate that is far beyond any incidental killing of citizen by citizen.    

You certainly have more to fear from your government than from your neighbor based on history.   Yet.... you would give the government even more power by making it's citizens even more vulnerable.

You would trust the government with lists with your name on it and trust that they would never abuse that knowledge?   Perhaps our government is "special"?   Not like that england and australlia unfortunateness.

lazs
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Offline Raider179

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« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2005, 12:15:22 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
and raider.... it is governments who do the most killing of citizens..  History shows us that they massacre their own people at a rate that is far beyond any incidental killing of citizen by citizen.    

You certainly have more to fear from your government than from your neighbor based on history.   Yet.... you would give the government even more power by making it's citizens even more vulnerable.

You would trust the government with lists with your name on it and trust that they would never abuse that knowledge?   Perhaps our government is "special"?   Not like that england and australlia unfortunateness.

lazs


you need to go look at the homicide rate in America. But I see what you are saying.
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Offline Elfie

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« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2005, 02:13:59 PM »
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These incidents were against people who had commited crimes


The only crime commited by Randy Weaver was modifiying 2 shotguns. It was later determined that undercover agents *entrapped* Weaver. Even later the US Congress declared the modified shotguns were in fact legal.

Sammy and Vicki commited no crimes, yet they are dead because of an overly zealous government.
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Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2005, 02:16:59 PM »
raider.... you need to look at the history of this and every other country to see how many people governments have killed.   People who were citizens.

lazs
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