New idea for 190D -- who wants it?

[Krusty]

http://www.ipmsnymburk.com/Kit%20Saloon%20Nymburk%202004/captured3.JPG

It was used! By the vvs, that is. But used nonetheless!

[TrueKill]

no capured skins allowed

[Krusty]

D'OH!!! Forgot...

[SkyChimp]

 man i like it

[TAK@JG1]

This Fw190A5 was imported by Japanese army.

[Kweassa]

That's very interesting TAK!

 I've heard about the Imperial Japanese importing a few 109s or 190s from Germany as a test aircraft.

 I'd love to know what the Japanese thought about the Fw190 or the 109.. any reports on that?

 Also, seeing some of the Japanese fighters, the Ki-84 in particular, I can almost feel that the 190 was somewhat influencing the design concepts. Did the 190 ever influence Japanese designs?

[TAK@JG1]

The designer described that the design of installation engine of Ki100(Mistu loves this fighter) referred@imported Fw190.

However, I do not know the case that seems that it referred concretely besides it.



http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki100.html

Fw190 obtained the high reputation value very much in Aircraft Investigation Department of a Japanese army.

Me109 was evaluated of engineering. However, Me109 received only the low evaluation from pilots.

Case of Britain : though the evaluation of Fw190 seems to be high.
The development of the fighter that influenced it from the design was not in time
for the war. (Sea fairy etc.)

However, regarding Mr. Kwessa might be not wrong either.

Because Fw190 has been influenced from@I-16 in a Spanish civil war.
and, Ki44 that became the origin of Ki84 has been influenced from I-16 in Nomonghan, too.

[TAK@JG1]

>Because Fw190 has been influenced from@I-16 in a Spanish civil war.

It might be a personal idea of the author of the read material possibly.

[Razer]

the Ki-100 is soo not a 190.  Its more of a Ki-61 that had a radial on it.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by TAK@JG1
This Fw190A5 was imported by Japanese army.

I'm quoting that because I love the pic. But this applies to all posts.


While the 190 and the 109 were evaluated, I don't believe either saw any action in the IJA/N service. They were merely being evaluated.


As for the connection between the FW190 and the Japs using radials.. well.. um.. 90% of all japanese planes were radial. They had a stigma against in-line engines. Despite the D4Y Judy being pretty fast for its time (using a DB 601 derivitave). However the Japanese disliked liquid cooled engines and perhaps (speculation) they simply didn't want to or didn't understand they had different requirements, there were engine problems in the years the plane was in service. They ended up switching to a radial.

The Ki61 was a direct result of the 109E, I would argue. This in no way means it is a copy, but it was influenced greatly by the performance and quality of the 109E. Compare it to every other plane in the IJN/A in 1941 and it's an alien among earthlings. Using imported MG151s and DB601s (liscense acquired in 1937 from DB) solidifies the connection even more.

However as the war went on the Ki61 engine was harder to produce and the production line was very slow. They hastily lashed on a radial engine (onto the Ki61 frame) and in Feb 1945 they had the Ki100.

So it's more of a direct link to the 109E than the 190A. Doesn't even resemble the 190 much (to me).

[TAK@JG1]

I am Japanese.
And, it is described that it changed to Ki100 from Ki61 referring to Fw190 in the book on the designer of Ki100(and ki61).

Please refer to following URL.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki100.html


Ki44's design concept is near Fw190.

Ki44 equipped with a engine with a large diameter, and was high retio of weight per wing area.
And, it had an excellent accelerating force and the roll rate.

However, the easiness of the cruising range and the takeoff and landing was  insufficient in a Japanese army.

Ki84 was improved of these problems.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by TAK@JG1
I am Japanese.
And, it is described that it changed to Ki100 from Ki61 referring to Fw190 in the book on the designer of Ki100(and ki61).

Please refer to following URL.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/ki100.html


Ki44's design concept is near Fw190.

Ki44 equipped with a engine with a large diameter, and was high retio of weight per wing area.
And, it had an excellent accelerating force and the roll rate.

However, the easiness of the cruising range and the takeoff and landing was  insufficient in a Japanese army.

Ki84 was improved of these problems.

Well the Ki61 was modeled directly after the 109E. The 190 wasn't even known to exist at the time, outside of Germany. Add to that the fact that at the end of the war even Germany had problems producing the in-line DB 600 series of engines, and it's not hard to believe that the Japanese (with a weaker industrial base, less supplies, and less skilled workers than Germany) also had a hard time and could not produce enough. A simple engine change (which has been done on several IJA/N designs) does not mean it was patterend off of the 190. It just means it was a simple engine change to an easier engine to make, maintain, handle, and install. No relation to the 190 at all.

As for the Ki44, that plane was not patterned after the 190 either (I find it hard to believe anybody could claim such things). Considering when it came out and where it was built, and the other planes around it, it was merely an adaptation of other Japanese designs in the air around it. it is more like a a6m than it is like a 190.

Just because it has a radial engine doesn't mean it's patterned off of the 190.


EDIT: the link you pasted doesn't say it was based on the 190a. It says they smoothed the round radial engine into the narrow fuselage in a manner similar to the 190a.

that's not quite the same

[Kweassa]

However, the Ha-112 was a radial engine, and, with a diameter of four feet, the installation of this engine in a fuselage only 33 inches wide provided a major challenge. However, the Kawasaki concern was guided in its work by being able to study the engine mount in an imported Focke-Wulf Fw 190A, an example in which a wide radial engine had been successfully installed in an airframe with a narrow width.

 This definately sounds like the 190 design influenced the Ki100 to me. They had troubles mounting the engines, looked at how the 190s solved the problem, and got a major hint.

[Krusty]

The way he was typing, it made it sound as if the 190 influenced the entire design from the beginning, not just the way the engine was mounted. I find the way an engine is mounted (and kluged to an existing airframe no less) inconsequential to the overall design. You have to go from wide and round to narrow and tall. Guess what? You're going to get the same shape regardless.

190 or no, it would still look the same.