Author Topic: Put things in perspective:  (Read 961 times)

LJK Raubvogel

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Put things in perspective:
« on: March 09, 2001, 10:18:00 PM »
All you Euro anti-US types need not sour this post please.

Subject: In Perspective
 

 Not sure of the source of this letter, but they make a very valid point
 

 Not to take anything away or to try and tarnish his memory but this is something to think about.  19 February 2001
On 18 February 2001, while racing for fame and fortune, Dale Earnhardt
died in the last lap of the Daytona 500.  It was surely a tragedy for his family, friends and fans.  He was 49 years old with grown children, one, which
was in the race.  I am new to the NASCAR culture so much of what I know has come  from the newspaper and TV.  He was a winner and earned everything he had. This included more than "$41 million in winnings and ten times that from endorsements and  souvenir sales".  He had a beautiful home and a private jet.  He drove the most sophisticated cars allowed and every part was inspected and replaced as soon as there was any evidence of wear.  This
is normally fully funded by the car and team sponsors.  Today, there is no
TV station that does not constantly remind us of his tragic end and the
radio already has a song of tribute to this winning driver.  Nothing should be taken away from this man, he was a professional and the best in his profession.  He was in a very dangerous business but the rewards were
great. Two weeks ago six U.S. Army soldiers died in a training accident when two UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters collided during night maneuvers in Hawaii.The soldiers were all in their twenties, pilots, crew chiefs and infantrymen. Most of them lived in sub-standard housing.  If you add their actual duty hours (in the field, deployed) they probably earn something close to
minimum wage.  The aircraft they were in were between 15 and 20 years old.  Many  times parts were not available to keep them in good shape due to funding. They were involved in the extremely dangerous business of flying in the Kuhuku mountains at night.  It only gets worse when the weather moves in as it did that night.  Most times no one is there with a yellow or red flag to slow things down when it gets critical.  Their children where mostly toddlers who will lose all memory of who "Daddy" was as they grow up.They  died training to defend our freedom. I take nothing away from Dale Earnhardt but ask you to perform this
simple test.  Ask any of your friends if they know who was the NASCAR driver
killed on 18 February 2001.  Then ask them if they can name one of the six soldiers  who died in Hawaii two weeks ago. 18 February 2001, Dale Earnhardt died driving for fame and glory at the Daytona 500.  The nation mourns.  Six soldiers died training to protect
our freedom.  No one can remember their names and most don't even remember
the incident.
 
 SGT. Thomas E. Barber
 CW2 Gregory I. Montgomery
 SP4 Bob D. MacDonald
 MAJ. Robert L. Olson
 SP4 Rafael Olvera-Rodriguez
 CW4 George P. Perry


Offline StSanta

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Put things in perspective:
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2001, 04:59:00 AM »
Very nice raub <S!>



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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
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"Live to pull, pull to live"

TheWobble

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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2001, 05:22:00 AM »
<S>!


Offline Maverick

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« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2001, 10:32:00 PM »
Amen.

I posted earlier that this society pays the most to those who excel at playing a game or pretending in front of a camera / audience. We pay the least to those who risk all and or sacrifice all for the good of others. Worst of all many don't even have any respect for those who provide our safety and educations.

<S>

Mav
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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Offline paintmaw

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« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2001, 11:59:00 PM »
Here is the authors name and address  <SALUTE>

 Semper Fidelis
 Staff Sergeant Jeffery A Stuhlman
 5th Battalion, 10th Marines
 PSC Box 20109
 Camp Lejeune, NC 28542-0109
 ph# 910 451 5227/2616 DSN 75

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2001, 05:23:00 AM »
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline pzvg

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« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2001, 06:30:00 AM »
<S>


Sp/4 Wilton "Bear" Stewman
US Army Aviation.

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

Offline Toad

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« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2001, 07:11:00 AM »
No, Dowding/Park.


That is not what they are saying at all...and you know it.

Check the thread title once more, please.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2001, 07:17:00 AM »
Isn't the point that the death of a serviceman is barely reported by the media, and forgotten sooner than the death of a sport's star? Very sad, IMO.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2001, 07:37:00 PM »
The complete stanza from Horace is:

"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori:
mors et fugacem persequitur virum
nec parcit inbellis iuventae
poplitibus timidoque tergo"

Which says:

"It is sweet and proper to die for one's country and death pursues even the man who flees nor spares the hamstrings or cowardly backs of battle-shy youths."

The first line is cut in stone above the entrance to the Memorial Amphitheater at Arlington National Cemetery (dedicated 1920).

While Horace's line used to be used as a positive statement, after VietNam it seemed to acquire a more sarcastic overtone.

I will apologize for any perceived slight if you meant it in the "old" sense, Dowding, for I do feel that those that interpose themselves between their society and potential evil are worthy of more respect and admiration than those that merely entertain their society.

Not a slight to Earnhardt at all; I just think that the likes of policemen, firemen, soldiers, etc. don't get the deference they are due.

[This message has been edited by Toad (edited 03-11-2001).]
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Sandman_SBM

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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2001, 04:18:00 AM »
First off... no disrespect to:

SGT. Thomas E. Barber
CW2 Gregory I. Montgomery
SP4 Bob D. MacDonald
MAJ. Robert L. Olson
SP4 Rafael Olvera-Rodriguez
CW4 George P. Perry

...or thier families.

The media is in the business of advertising. We, the viewers, are the product that is being sold to advertisers. There is no profit in lamenting the loss of six soldiers.

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cheers,
sand
screamin blue messiahs

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2001, 11:38:00 AM »
Actually Toad, perhaps you'd be interested in the following:

Dulce Et Decorum Est

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


You probably already know, but this was written in 1917 by Wilfred Owen after his experiences in the trenches of WW1. He himself was killed in 1918.

The Horace quote was used as an anti-war slogan long before Vietnam.

By orginal point was asking whether it is "sweet and proper" to die for your country, considering the almost complete apathy towards your plight by 99% of your countrymen. The situation is soured further by the almost hysterical following generated by a celebrity's death and the 'appropiate emotional response' that is emphasised with it. Just look at Diana's death for another apt example.

RAM had a point, BTW.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.