Author Topic: Enemy at the Gate  (Read 2619 times)

Offline flakbait

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« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2001, 11:57:00 AM »
<aircraft recognition class>

 

 

Hot tip: the Ju-88 (bottom) is a night fighter variant; G-7 to be exact. The top shot is an He-111 is an H3 model.

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Offline mrfish

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« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2001, 12:59:00 PM »
exactly  - i know what a ju88 looks like, in fact i have 8 kills in them this tour and that was a heinkel.

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2001, 01:12:00 PM »
good movie, saw it Friday night..much better than "What women want" with M Gibson (wife's movie last wekend)  

Needed more sniper shot close ups and less communist propaganda crap..

Can any of you history buffs say if it accurately portrayed the Russian incentive for battle (mowing down their own troops)? Seemed a bit exaggerated..

Give it a 7 overall Rip.

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Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2001, 02:57:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Eagler:

Can any of you history buffs say if it accurately portrayed the Russian incentive for battle (mowing down their own troops)? Seemed a bit exaggerated..

Unfortunately, it wasn't exaggerated.  It was SOP at Stalingrad (I won't include other areas, because Stalingrad is the one I have read about, but I suspect it was more widespread than just at that battlefield) to set up a line behind the front line with NKVD troops to shoot anyone who retreated or wasn't agressive enough.

The numbers of Soviet troops killed by the NKVD and their own officer corps was completely astounding and sickening, and probably only shadowed by the brutality against enemy prisoners by both sides in that conflict.  I've heard recently that they have been able to for the first time estimate the number of Soviet troops killed at Stalingrad in the Fall/Winter of 42/43 (by all means) in a semi-accurate manner, and that the number is over 1 million.

Even more amazing was the NKVD execution of Soviet troops who escaped German captivity and returned to their lines after being captured in the summer offensives of 41/42.  After all, if they weren't German conspirators or traitors to the motherland, they wouldn't have surrendered in the first place, right?

It all seems made up it is so horrible, but some really awful stuff is true.

[EDIT]
If you are interested, I can't recommend Antony Beevor's Stalingrad: The Fateful Seige 1942-1943 enough.

[This message has been edited by Kratzer (edited 03-20-2001).]

Offline Staga

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« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2001, 11:51:00 AM »
 

Offline Ripsnort

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« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2001, 12:16:00 PM »
Eagler, the genocide by their own troops is true enough, but I'm sure Boroda will be on soon enough to spew propoganda to the opposite belief...

Thks for the rating, think I'll go see it.

Offline -lynx-

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« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2001, 05:58:00 AM »
Rip you're talking about horrors of what was happening to people with less then respectful attitude - shame on you .

NKVD (what's become KGB later) troops weren't normally stationed behind combat troops - that's propaganda. They were, however stationed behind units formed from ex-prisoners coming from labour camps. Those had no other option but to go forward (often unarmed!!!) and "wash away their sins with blood" or die form either German bullet in the face or NKVD bullet in the back.

Every single combat unit had it's own "commissar" - a political officer. Those could report anyone they suspected in covardice or non-loyalty or basically whatever they felt like to NKVD with well known consequences. It's well known fact that many Soviet soldiers feared NKVD more then Germans - Germans wouldn't go after their families after they were killed - NKVD would...

The astounding success fo German army in 1941 could be contributed largely to the fact that after Stalin's purges in late 30s the Red Army was literally left with no command staff. And those who survived were looking over their shoulders all the time.

As for POWs - they were branded traitors and even if they escaped and made it across the front line they were sent to the camps . One of the most spectacular escapes was when 11 POWs flew away from Pennemunde (V1/V2 test site) on a radar equipped He111. The plane was shot down by Russian AA, ditched with all escapees surviving only to be sent to the dreaded camps. The pilot - A. Devyatayev - was released from the camp after Stalin's death and named a hero...

On the other hand, America's own treatment of it's own citizens in the same period was less then exemplary - internment camps during the war and witch hunts after the war - weeding out misterious Commie agents... Something about casting the stone when without sin springs to mind...

Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2001, 06:04:00 AM »
Aw geeeeeeeeez, can we live without the "Smiley police" for a day or two please ???!


Back on the subject : I love it Staga  

Saw
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Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2001, 08:41:00 AM »
ugh... my mother, of all people, is reading my copy of Antony Beevor's Stalingrad...  If she would hurry up and give it back to me, I'd find info about the '2nd line', which DID exist.

Offline Midnight

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« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2001, 07:09:00 PM »
THis movie was about a sniper duel. I say you had to have a sniper's mentality to watch it. I think if they cut it down to 45 minutes it would have been a great flick.

I don't need to see a closeup of a guy's face for 2 minutes, followed by a slow panning scene, followed by the same guy's face for another 2 minutes. What a bore.

They tried to make some of the scenes suspenseful, but they fell way off the mark. These things just were one boring scene after another, then a few seconds of action as the bombers flew over.  

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Offline SOB

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« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2001, 06:14:00 PM »
Finally got out to see this one.  First half, very enjoyable & the makings of a fine movie...second half, a steaming heap of excrement that ruined it.  And the ending?  Why would the Russian sniper come out into the open to kill the German one?  Doesn't that kind of go against the idea of being a sniper.  And when he was standing there, and his coat flapped in the wind, I almost expected him to throw down his rifle, so he could out-draw him with his pistelaro while Spaghetti Western music played in the background.

I laughed, I cried, I vomited.  I give it two thumbs down and a swift kick in the ass!    


SOB


[This message has been edited by SOB (edited 04-05-2001).]
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Offline Saintaw

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« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2001, 06:17:00 PM »
Lol SOB !

I asked myself in the 1st place why did the German one come out ?
Saw
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Offline Pongo

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« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2001, 07:17:00 PM »
THat must be how it really happend. Its historical right?

Offline Tac

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« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2001, 11:57:00 PM »
No. Historically both snipers were well hidden (and they were hunting each other).

The Russian sniper was scanning the remains of a building when he saw a flash of light aimed at it and saw the scope of the german sniper, which was swiveling towards him.

I dont know if the bullet went through the german sniper's scope and into his head (highly doubtful), but the Russian did plink the german sniper.

And both were VERY well hidden.

Offline Kratzer

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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2001, 08:44:00 AM »
Historically, this 'true' story didn't happen.

Read Stalingrad.