Author Topic: Wanna buy a Spitfire?  (Read 625 times)

Offline qts

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 782
      • None yet
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« on: July 23, 2000, 02:50:00 PM »
[Copied from the Sunday Telegraph - THE]www.telegraph.co.uk]THE  Spitfire, the fighter aircraft which helped to win the Battle of Britain, is back in production for the first time for 60 years. But would-be owners will need more than £1 million to buy one.
During the Second World War, 26,000 were mass-produced in factories at low cost. Large numbers were lost in flames - along with their young pilots. Now, a new generation - exact in every detail - are being made and offered for sale as "the ultimate toy".

Two Spitfires have been built this year by a 12-strong team of engineers at Historic Flying, a company based near Saffron Walden, Essex. One has already flown.

Each has taken about 20,000 man-hours to build. Original salvaged parts are used where possible, although about half the components have had to be hand-made from scratch. In all, about 25,000 new components had to be manufactured for the first of the new batch of Spitfires to take to the air, a Mk XVIII, which has a Rolls-Royce Griffon engine, producing 2,000 horse power from 37 litres.

It is currently undergoing its final tuning and air tests at the Imperial War Museum at Duxford, Cambridgeshire, before it receives its Civil Aviation Authority permit to fly as a vintage aircraft. The second new Spitfire, which should be ready to fly in time for September's 60th anniversary of the end of the Battle of Britain, is a Mk IX, with a Rolls-Royce 27-litre Merlin engine. The two planes are expected to fetch about £1,250,000 each.

Historic Flying is the first company to go into commercial restoration of Spitfires, and its production facility is in full swing, but no one is prepared to to say who is likely to buy the planes.

Patrick Peal, a company spokesman, said: "When someone buys a Rembrandt, it is usually done through discreet agents around the world, and so it is with these aircraft.

"Spitfires have been restored or renovated before, but usually for collectors and enthusiasts in barns and small hangars - simply keeping old machines going by regular maintenance. This is the first time anyone has gone into production with 'new' Spitfires, purely to sell them on the open market."

The company said that between 10 and 15 people from various countries had expressed interest, some of whom regarded the aircraft as an investment. Martin Henocq, the factory's chief inspector, said: "Today the Spitfire has become the ultimate toy in a macho world. You only have to start the engine to reduce some enthusiasts to tears of pride. At the end of the war you could buy one for £5. Now it might cost us tens of thousands of pounds just to bring pieces of a wreckage from somewhere in Europe or even the Pacific."

About 40 old Spitfires are currently thought to be capable of flight. But the "as new" ones will have a fresh flying life of at least 50 years.

The company will try to recover a derelict Spitfire whenever possible, because of the provenance, even though most of the parts will be rebuilt. The remains of the Mk XVIII were recovered from the edge of an Indian air force base at Kalaikunda, north of Calcutta.

"We prefer to have a derelict aircraft, no matter how poor the condition," said Mr Peal. "Each component can be straightened out and remade to precisely the same tolerances wherever possible, using original design drawings obtained from the RAF Museum at Hendon."

The components are no longer totally British. Only one company in the world is capable of rebuilding the piston-driven Merlin and Griffon engines to top condition. It is based in Chicago and is run by a Czech immigrant. The multi-laminated wooden propeller blades have to be made by Hoffman's in southern Germany.

The owner of Historic Flying is a Dutch industrialist, Karel Bos, who made his fortune designing exhaust systems. He has used an old Spitfire to commute from his home to Essex but says that, because of the lack of space in the plane for his luggage, he usually travels to the factory in his private jet.

The first of the new breed of commercially built Spitfires will soon leave RAF Duxford after final testing. The pilot who flew it there, John Romaine, says it will be sadly missed when it is taken away by a future owner.

"At least we are ensuring that these planes never become obsolete," he said.

Historic Flying estimates that there are no more than 60 crashed Spitfires which could ultimately be brought back to "new".

On the walls of its factory are the words spoken by Churchill in 1940 about the role of pilots during the Battle of Britain: "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."


Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2000, 04:01:00 PM »
Ah, I wish1

Along with this there are the "new" Fw-190's being built in Germany, "new" Me-262's up in Washington State and I heard someone was doing "new" Hurricanes in Scotland.

A great time to be filthy rich! Wish I was!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Downtown

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12
      • http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2000, 09:39:00 AM »
There are about 6 P-40s being rebuilt now, including a C that may have flown and been destroyed during the Pearl Harbor attack.

Always dreamed of getting rich, buying a small Mom&Pop Machine shop and knocking out a few P-40s.

Then I get license from China to flim "The Flying Tiger." Staring Keifer Sutherland as David Lee "Tex" Hill, Christian Slater as John Petach, Charlie Sheen as Gregory "Pappy" Boyington, Joan Chen and Madame Chaing Kai Shek, Michael Douglass as Claire Lee Chenault, and Michelle Pfifer as Olga Greenlaw.

------------------

"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
    lkbrown1@tir.com    
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2000, 12:13:00 AM »
Those planes are hilariously overpriced. Some wartime spits have traded for as little as 750kUSD, over a million pound is a little funny! not to mention that the price of the 190 IIRC is around 500kUSD and you can buy a factory new as can be Yak 9U straight from Russia for around the 600k US mark. Plus there are numerous warbirds still floating about in the 700-1.4m range, I think they will not sell many of those barbiefires. Anyone know how much those NOS Zero's are going to be?

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23046
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2000, 04:35:00 PM »
Sorrow, those Wartime Spits that you mentioned, the ones for $750,000.00, they can't fly.  They are restoration projects.  Flying wartime Spits cost about $5,000,000.00.

And thank you for continuing to throw insults at the aircraft.

Sisu
-Karnak

[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 07-25-2000).]
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2000, 04:37:00 PM »
Karnak, I don't think so...you can get "fliers" in that range.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2000, 01:20:00 AM »
Karnak- I looked at some of my mags that have info on auction'd birds. There was not one spitfire in there at the 5m USD mark. The price I gave was for a lowball non-restored and no history Spitfire. The ones with a full history or full restoration go much higher but the higest auction tag I found was for 3m USD for a restored one in an australian collection. The prices for resto projects plummet very low, there are some out there for as low as 50k US. Resto's are expensive and a non-flying bird can take millions to get reborn.

  And yes- I will take shots at it. Frankly as nice a plane as it is and was I consider it's emotional appeal to outstrip any rational qualities of the plane. And their incredible price range reflects that perfectly. I always considered it funny that VVS evaluations considered the spit as a nice fighter but not equal to the LaGG or Yak models they had in combat and on paper. Let's face it- if it hadn't fought over britain and been in a thousand pictures and movies the plane would not be near as popular. and if it didn't have Hispano the plane would REALLY suck...  Imagine trying to compete in a spit with ShVAK or 4 12,7mm? It would really lower your opinion of the plane I think  

Offline Suave1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2000, 02:16:00 AM »
Wouldn't Shvaks on spit be an improvement. Although the shvak projectile is a bit smaller, it has higher muzzle velocity and higher rate of fire than hispano. As for the spitfire's popularity, just look at it, thats one sexy squeak baby !

Sorrow[S=A]

  • Guest
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2000, 06:59:00 PM »
no it would not be- ShVAK has less explosive and much less velocity than a hispano. It's really more comparable to a german 20mm than anything else.

Offline jmccaul

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2000, 03:30:00 PM »
I like it.

 

Offline Windle

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Wanna buy a Spitfire?
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2000, 11:36:00 PM »
 
Quote
Flying wartime Spits cost about $5,000,000.00.

Way off here.  A flying Spit (most all of the wartime models have history) sold for around $800,000 last year - and that was the ASKING price!  Only now are popular warbird fighters (F4U, Spit, P-51, etc) selling for $1M and above.  Up until last month my estimate for the average flying F4U in great condition was around $800,000 (and I follow the F4U market religiously).  All of a sudden David Jeansonne sells his FG-1D for $2.1M !!  Just goes to showyo that you can't underestimate, nor guess what value a warbird holds.  Most F4U owners will probably inflate their asking prices to $2M now, but I doubt anymore will sell at that price (for a while anyway).

P-38's will bring close to $2 million - Bearcat's as well.  Mustangs usually go for $800,000 - $1.4 million depending on condition & type (TF-51's bring the high dollars).

I don't see too many people spending more than $1 million on a Spit right now, unless that person REALLY wants a particular airplane (i.e. Jeansonne's FG-1D sale to Paul Morgan).

"New-Production" planes are a completely different market.  I do predict that as soon as the 1st FW-190A/N flies, all of the planes being offered for sale will be sold.  The Yak's are cool as well, and well worth the price being payed for them.

The 'new-build' prices being asked are based more on what it costs to tool up and assemble the planes rather than how they relate to the veteran warbird market.  Suffice to say the prices being payed on the veteran warbird market are what's justified the creation of a 'new-production' market.  Some folks want a historical, veteran warbird, others simply want to "own and fly a Mustang, FW-190, etc".

Don't confuse the two markets.  In time the distinction between the two will become more apparent. The value of one is directly related to the 'soul' of a particular vintage aircraft, the value of the othermarket is based on tooling, material, and labor cost.

 

------------------
~Lt. Jg. Windle~

VF-17 The Jolly Rogers 8X
      Skychrgr@aol.com