Ch Products

[Sundiver]

Is 70bucks US a good price for a FighterStick, Ch Pedals and Pro throttle? All are like new with original documentation and software. Only caveat is they're gameport not USb.

[Spatula]

dont get gameport stuff, unless you have a good after-market joystick port (think CH made a good one). Gameport is limited to the number of buttons and axis etc it can have, plus its very spikey if you use the standard built-in PC gameport.

Get the USB gear.

[StarOfAfrica2]

What a load of hooey.  I've been using my analog CH gear for ........ egad, never mind.  I've been using it a long time.  

There is no such thing as a PC gameport anymore.  Modern PCs dont come with one, so there's no danger of the scenario you describe.  Moreover, it was mainly a problem with

A)  The way Windows handled polling the joystick and any other connected items  

or

B)  Cheap joystick parts

that caused spiking.

There ARE some issues getting analog CH gear to work under Windows XP, but it is doable.  If the gear is in good condition, and you have a gameport, and you arent afraid of doing a little more work than usual, then yes its well worth 70 bucks.  The throttle will be the most problematic.  

If you want "plug n play" compatibility and ease of installation, dont buy it because you'll be unhappy.

*Edit*

You can forget about those "gamecards" as they used to be called too.  Every one ever made was ISA.  They never made a PCI version of a gamecard, because by the time PCI was popular all PCs came with their own gameport and hardware spiking issues were pretty much non-existant.  Also, USB came along, and that pretty much ended gameport hardware.

[Spatula]

So if 'modern' pcs dont have gameports (which i think most still do, you just need a breakout cable to attach to the mobo so you have a port on the back), what do you plug yours into? do you use a USB/Gameport converter? My pedals are still gameport, but they're on a USB/Gameport converter. The stick is native USB.  The pedals are spike-free, but my old gameport CH combat stick which i plugged into my old gameport was a bit spikey - which i put down to a crap gameport.  

"Gameports" are also used as MIDI interfaces (or at least used to be).

USB can support many more axis and buttons than a gameport stick, as gameport has a finite limit, where USB dont (theoretically).

with a gameport stick you either need a port on your PC (native mobo, or aftermarket card), or you'll need a USB/gameport converter. According to starofafrica, modern pcs dont have gameports, and according to starofafrica you cant get converter boards anymore, so that leaves you with a gameport/usb converter which will set ya back $20 and the ones ive seen so far dont support as many buttons as my combat stick had (so i had to live with less buttons). Maybe newer ones are better, maybe not, i cant comment. My point is its $70 for that 2nd hand gameport stick, plus $20 for a converter, plus extra setup hassle, and possibly less buttons. Why not spend a little extra for a brandnew USB fighter stick and save the hassle??

But, hey its just my 2 cents, do as ya please...

[TequilaChaser]

Sundiver, I am using Windows XP Pro, I went to http://www.ch-hangar.com and downloaded a batch file that goes on a floppy disk, it let me load up my  F16 Fighter stick pedals etc...and program it with speedkeys, speedkeys is the big brother of Control Manager which control manager is for the USB type CH stuff.

speedkeys will let you program your stick outside of AH in your windows, then you can either get a gameport connector ( if ya Motherboard supports it, my ASUS board has a gameport built on it but have to plug the connector on it and slide the port into one of the openings on back of the case where your pci slot openings are )

except, I bought the USB adapter from Radio Shack for 14.95 + tax.

The analog sticks have a 2meg memory chip built in, so once you program the stick and download the template to the stick it is there til ya change it.

the USB works great for me, but the Gameport worked just as well when I used it also......

I have been using my CH analog stuff for 9+ years or so and have only replaced a pot and installed stiffer springs last year.

when CH-Products were closing out on the Fighter Stick and Rudder pedals etc of the analog/gameport type, they were going for roughly $21 to $27 dollars brand new, I encouraged some kinfolk to buy up 3 or 4 sticks and pedals........

if it is in good condition I say is a decent buy.   And you can always send it to CH and have anything repaired at not to big a cost...........

your decision.......  I have not upgraded to USB because of price, and well because my stuff still works!

The USB Adaptor will not let you set stick mapping or keymapping in AH if you have anything other loaded besides the default template I have found, unless I am missing something somewhere........ but I have not had any issues with using speedkeys software.......

edit: without using the Throttle with the stick you are limited on your number of buttons, but they double/triple to like 40 or 42 best I recall when using the pro throttle in conjunction with the fighter stick........

Good Luck

[Sundiver]

I guess I wasn't clear. This is throttle, pedals and fighter stick all for the seventy dollars. Fellow's selling his comp and has no further use for them. All saw minimal use. Probably less than two hours a month.

Originally posted by TequilaChaser
Sundiver, I am using Windows XP Pro, I went to http://www.ch-hangar.com and downloaded a batch file that goes on a floppy disk, it let me load up my  F16 Fighter stick pedals etc...and program it with speedkeys, speedkeys is the big brother of Control Manager which control manager is for the USB type CH stuff.

speedkeys will let you program your stick outside of AH in your windows, then you can either get a gameport connector ( if ya Motherboard supports it, my ASUS board has a gameport built on it but have to plug the connector on it and slide the port into one of the openings on back of the case where your pci slot openings are )

except, I bought the USB adapter from Radio Shack for 14.95 + tax.

The analog sticks have a 2meg memory chip built in, so once you program the stick and download the template to the stick it is there til ya change it.

the USB works great for me, but the Gameport worked just as well when I used it also......

I have been using my CH analog stuff for 9+ years or so and have only replaced a pot and installed stiffer springs last year.

when CH-Products were closing out on the Fighter Stick and Rudder pedals etc of the analog/gameport type, they were going for roughly $21 to $27 dollars brand new, I encouraged some kinfolk to buy up 3 or 4 sticks and pedals........

if it is in good condition I say is a decent buy.   And you can always send it to CH and have anything repaired at not to big a cost...........

your decision.......  I have not upgraded to USB because of price, and well because my stuff still works!

The USB Adaptor will not let you set stick mapping or keymapping in AH if you have anything other loaded besides the default template I have found, unless I am missing something somewhere........ but I have not had any issues with using speedkeys software.......

edit: without using the Throttle with the stick you are limited on your number of buttons, but they double/triple to like 40 or 42 best I recall when using the pro throttle in conjunction with the fighter stick........

Good Luck

[TequilaChaser]

Originally posted by Sundiver
I guess I wasn't clear. This is throttle, pedals and fighter stick all for the seventy dollars. Fellow's selling his comp and has no further use for them. All saw minimal use. Probably less than two hours a month.

you were very clear, Sundiver, and I gave them figures just to give you a way to gauge the cost. In my mind I would say it is worth it for the complete set up, if you don't mind it being gameport/analog verses  USB type.......

it is CH products, and they do repair them if something should go wrong for minimal cost if that ever happened....

[doc1kelley]

It's a good deal!  I still have my analog F-16 fighterstick but haven't used it in like ages.  I use my F-16Fighterstick USB and USB Pro Throttle and analog CH pedals (I like the rocker pedals compared to the push sliding type) but I use a Radioshack usb-Gameport adapter for it.  I do NOT use anything other than the key mapper in Aces High to program my keys and they work great.  

All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1

[TequilaChaser]

The USB Adaptor will not let you set stick mapping or keymapping in AH if you have anything other loaded besides the default template I have found, unless I am missing something somewhere........ but I have not had any issues with using speedkeys software

using the \USB adapter on the gameport model, you can not program inside AH unless you have the default template loaded into your Analog/gameport model CH F-16 Fighter stick/Pro Throttle  you are limited to only 15 functions er/or 16 functions.............

so it is best to use the speedkeys program to get the most out of your old analog/gameport stuff....this has been my experience anyhow for the last 5 years........

[StarOfAfrica2]

Originally posted by Spatula
So if 'modern' pcs dont have gameports (which i think most still do, you just need a breakout cable to attach to the mobo so you have a port on the back), what do you plug yours into? do you use a USB/Gameport converter? My pedals are still gameport, but they're on a USB/Gameport converter. The stick is native USB.  The pedals are spike-free, but my old gameport CH combat stick which i plugged into my old gameport was a bit spikey - which i put down to a crap gameport.  

"Gameports" are also used as MIDI interfaces (or at least used to be).

USB can support many more axis and buttons than a gameport stick, as gameport has a finite limit, where USB dont (theoretically).

with a gameport stick you either need a port on your PC (native mobo, or aftermarket card), or you'll need a USB/gameport converter. According to starofafrica, modern pcs dont have gameports, and according to starofafrica you cant get converter boards anymore, so that leaves you with a gameport/usb converter which will set ya back $20 and the ones ive seen so far dont support as many buttons as my combat stick had (so i had to live with less buttons). Maybe newer ones are better, maybe not, i cant comment. My point is its $70 for that 2nd hand gameport stick, plus $20 for a converter, plus extra setup hassle, and possibly less buttons. Why not spend a little extra for a brandnew USB fighter stick and save the hassle??

But, hey its just my 2 cents, do as ya please...

Ok.  I made a generalization by saying "modern PCs dont have gameports anymore".  

Mostly they dont.  Yes they are also called "MIDI Ports", that doesnt change the fact that any new computer you go look at on the shelf will not have one.  You CAN find Motherboards still that will have the pins for plugging a jack into, similar to the one that comes with the SB Audigy cards.  They have a "MIDI / Gameport" setup, but you have to plug it into pins on the card with a small ribbon cable attatched to a PCI port blocking plate that has the gameport on it.  I have such a pinset on my current 64 bit system I am making, but it wasnt easy to find.  My current Socket A board required using a SB soundcard with the gameport.  

Regarding the old gamecards you could get from CH, or a few other companies ...........

Those were great for several reasons.  Mostly because they adjusted themselves to the speed of the computer, but also because they had 2 plugins.  You could use that for 2 separate joysticks or a joystick and a gamepad or whatever.  But the biggest thing about them was what actually required the second plugin.  The Pro Pedals.  Double port gamecards are "readdressable" (I think thats the right term, been awhile since I worked on an ISA computer).  Ever notice that second plug on the end of the Pro Pedals cable?  Sure your joystick goes into one, but whats the other for?  The toe brakes.  Gotta plug that second cable into a true readdressable gamecard for them to work.  They stopped making ISA computers, and they never made a PCI version of the Gamecard.  Trust me, I looked.  I'd give my left nut for a CH gamecard that works in a PCI slot.  Even using a USB conversion you cant get the toe brakes to work.  

USB conversions are fine too.  TC uses one.  There are several guys flying in AH that use analog CH gear and use USB converters.  Personally I dont like USB.  Too dependent on your power supply, and how much junk you have added on to your system.  A powered hub helps, but doesnt eliminate the problems.  Great idea, not well implemented.  Thats just my opinion though.  

As to support ............

Programming buttons on analog CH gear is more difficult, but not because of any limits on a number of buttons.  Think about that for a second.  You are trying to say that an analog stick set would have more buttons than could be programmed with an analog connection?  Why would they do something like that?  Can you put MORE buttons on a USB stick?  Sure.  How many do you want??  By the time you put in a Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals, you have at least 2 hats and 10 programmable buttons, plus the rudder pedals.  Analog.  I get by with 4 buttons and pedals, and the little roller on the joystick base for a throttle.  Thats all I need.  

May have some problems, as I noted, with the Throttle.  It goes in through the keyboard plug in (PS2 plug), and XP has some problems with this setup.  There are people who have them working though, Ack Ack is the person to ask.  A search of this forum might also be helpful.  It is do-able.

[wrag]

Some soundcards also have a gameport!

Using the DOS program provided by CHHanger can make the system work.  I'm currently using a USB F16, a USB ProThrottle, and analog pedals.  All CH.

Note: I connected my old F16 analog stick to the pedals and then the pedals to the soundcard gameport and my rudder pedals are currently working fine.

NOTE TO SELF:  look into the Radio shack gameport to usb converter.

[TequilaChaser]

using the gameport-to-USB adapter on the gameport model, you can not program inside AH unless you have the default template loaded into your Analog/gameport model CH F-16 Fighter stick/Pro Throttle. By using the adapter it shows up as  USB Adaptor or USB Adapter something  another instead of CH Fighter Stick, the adapter limits your functions! you are limited to only 15 functions er/or 16 functions.............this is what I have run across, so this is why I use speedkeys with the batch file so I can use all my buttons, I will seldomly lose calibration as well!!!! but mainly on the what do they call it Minandoa and  the Uterus maps....prob just coincidence but seems to happen on them maps

so it is best to use the speedkeys program to get the most out of your old analog/gameport stuff....this has been my experience anyhow for the last 5 years........

by using speedkeys to program a template for your old gameport model Fighter Stick/Throttle set up you can set it to do macros, can do just bout anything imaginable and still get alot of views and flaps, etc etc etc.....and don't have to be limited by the adapter, and if you want to use CM EYE mode ( ie...F5 when in tower ) you just use aces High keymapping to remap your keys  to still fly around and watch others like in the DA, TA or in certian special events.........

as for USB & using to much power, I use only my stick and my all in one fax/copier domajiggy on USB everything else is either Firewire, Ps2, SATA or IDE,  so I guess it could be dependent depending how many plugnPlay USB devices people have plugged in.......

S2A, I figured you was replying to Spatula, but wasn't sure........so I added some more detail about what the  gameport to USB adapter will and will not let you do.......

[StarOfAfrica2]

As always, great info from these guys.  They should make you a trainer or somethin TC.  

[Spatula]

Heck, if its the whole HOTAS and rudders set up for $70, then get it... Must have misread i thought it was only a stick.
You could go with the whole thing on analog if you can get a good port. Or get a couple or three USB adapters, put each device on its own one and map in AH - kind of what i have done (my pedals are on one and it works brilliantly).
You could always upgrade bits seperately if you really needed to, but $70 is a good deal for the lot.

SOA2 - my analog/usb converter has 4 modes with a switch on it. Each 4 modes is a type of stick (4 button, 3 axis; 6 button 2 axis and hat; etc...) none of them offered the full functionalily of the whole sticks button set. Plus my old stick was only a combat stick which was too limiting (less buttons, only a 4-way hat) even in analog. On the USB converter i lost half the buttons. Have a nice USB fighter stick now, which is a pure treat to use.

[StarOfAfrica2]

SOA2 - my analog/usb converter has 4 modes with a switch on it. Each 4 modes is a type of stick (4 button, 3 axis; 6 button 2 axis and hat; etc...) none of them offered the full functionalily of the whole sticks button set.

Sorry I misunderstood what you were saying.  Yes they had USB converters like that out for awhile.  They ARE very limiting.  And they werent very popular.  Go look at the ones like TC is talking about, they have them at Radio Shack.  Much better design.  Just stands to reason, technology has increased 10 fold since the introduction of USB.  There are still alot of guys out there though using analog controllers.  Adapters are more common now (relatively) and are more flexible and more powerful.  

I still prefer my simple analog plug in.  You think your stick was limiting?  I have a Flightstick Pro and the Pro Pedals.  4 buttons on the joystick, 1x4-way hat and a small wheel on the joystick base for throttle.  I rarely use the hat, relying on the keyboard.  I'm just used to it.  Never could get to like using a hat switch.