Author Topic: Reasonable doubt (Read 1019 times)

Igloo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2000, 02:48:00 AM »

Uhh, I thought the commandment was:

"Thou shalt not kill"

not "Thou shalt not murder".

The death penalty is a discompassionate primative way of dealing with things.

If you take an eye for an eye, everyone's blind.

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Squadron Leader, Igloo.
C/O RCAF 411 Squadron - County of York

"Problems cannot be solved with the same awareness that created them" - Albert Einstein[/i]

Naso · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2000, 03:23:00 AM »

Ditto

Staga · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2000, 03:35:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Igloo:

If you take an eye for an eye, everyone's blind.

What if prosecuted is already blind ?
Then we uhmm.. aaa.. ...take his sunglasses?

Toad · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2000, 02:19:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Igloo:
The death penalty is a discompassionate primative way of dealing with things.

With an ABSOLUTELY PERFECT record when it comes to preventing recidivism!

Crude but effective, you might say.

If you guys want to have a sobfest over the execution of the sort of people that rape and kill, send me the bill for the kleenex tissues! I feel your pain!

Dowding · « **Reply #19 on:** September 26, 2000, 04:24:00 PM »

Capital punsihment is barbaric - the law as I see it is meant to represent civilisation, to show that the great majority of people are better than the people who commit these horrific crimes, not sink to their level.

I can't comment on the US system, but looking at all the miscarriages of justice in this country since the capital punishment was abolished, that would have led to innocent people being killed, I'm glad we don't have it.

Perhaps you have more confidence in your judiciary than I do in mine. But I think there will always be innocent people convicted, and although the great majority of people killed using capital punishment are guilty, a single innocent death due to a civilised society's laws is one too many. That is why I will oppose any re-introduction of capital punishment in this country.

As for the reference to capital punishment being post-natal abortion - that depends on whether you think an embryo can be called a human life. But that's one can of worms I don't want to open.

StSanta · « **Reply #20 on:** September 26, 2000, 05:23:00 PM »

<Opens can of worms, just to peek in>

Ah, been there, done that. A debate won't change anyone's opinion.

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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"

Dowding · « **Reply #21 on:** September 26, 2000, 06:05:00 PM »

Make sure you put the lid back on, StSanta!

I've had the capital punishment/abortion/euthanasia debates many, many times over the years. I don't want to repeat it.

And when you observe that type of discussion, its like watching a fundamentalist Christian trying to convert a fundamentalist Muslim. I've seen that also - guess what the outcome was?

Toad · « **Reply #22 on:** September 26, 2000, 07:29:00 PM »

Oh, we've already had the lid off that one in the O-Club. I forget which topic, but somebody hi-jacked it. I'm not afraid of a little old topic in any event.

At some instant between the time a sperm drills the egg and the time the doctor sees a baby "crown", what has previously been an organism becomes a human being. Right?

I don't know when that is.

If either of you gents can tell me with 100% accuracy when that happens, I'd be glad to support abortion BEFORE that time.

After that, it would be MURDER, would it not?

Now I'll never be mistaken for a real religious guy, but I do believe in a "higher power". I also believe that we might be individually be called upon to explain how we spent our time to such a "power".

I just don't want to have to explain that I was wrong about when an organism becomes a human being.

...and for Dowding

Jigster · « **Reply #23 on:** September 26, 2000, 08:58:00 PM »

I've tried to word this in a non-offensive manner at least 10 times now and spent the last two and a half hours.

Religon, death and all that stuff ain't worth getting into.

- Jig

Toad · « **Reply #24 on:** September 26, 2000, 09:15:00 PM »

Well, I'm not offended!

I do have my _personal_ beliefs. You can rest assured, however, that I view them as "just mine".

Everyone else is free to think and do what they feel is right in these areas.

I'm also not afraid to discuss those beliefs, as you may have noticed before now.

JENG · « **Reply #25 on:** September 26, 2000, 09:27:00 PM »

I'd better keep this 'can o' worms' closed but hey I'm hungry

I look at it in a slightly different way... If ya are executed it's over... no more pain, no more sorrow, no chance to redeem yourself. I believe that life-imprisonement is a harder sentence then death-row. If ya put a couple of consecutive life-sentences (to make sure they never get out) on a capital punishment... they'll suffer more cause they'll be sitting in that little cell for a very, very long time.

I believe knowing you'll be sitting in that little box the rest of your life, 22h out of 24 a day, having to ask everything, depending on the whim of the prisonkeepers, having absolutely no freedom is much worse then execution (I'd prefer it above life in prison).

But of course that will never happen for a couple of reasons.
1) The believe that execution will function as a detterend for wanna-be offenders.
2) The cost of prisons.
3) Public Opinion.

In belgium we've had the famous case of Marc Dutroux... (a pedophile who kept 4 kids in a little cell in his basement for 2 years... all 4 were repeatedly abused, two died of starvation, the 2 others were luckely saved). There were alot of outcries for capital punishment... I personaly want this guy to grow very old in prison knowing that he'll never get out!! (ps: it's total isolation cause the other inmates would slaughter him).

Bee
PS: There's ofcourse also the little thing called absolute certainty. Every system is flawed... there will always be innocent people slipping throught the mazes of the net. Even if it's 1 in a million, do you want the execution of an innocent man on your conscience (spelling)?

[This message has been edited by JENG (edited 09-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by JENG (edited 09-26-2000).]

Dowding · « **Reply #26 on:** September 27, 2000, 04:10:00 AM »

Thats how I see it Jeng - the one innocent man out of thousands really does make capital punishment barbaric. Perhaps it would be acceptable if the law hadn't been found out to fallible so many times over the years, but until it is 100% accurate, I can't agree with capital punishment.

I don't know what happens when you die; I've thought about it alot, and I've come to the conclusion that people who say 'this happens, that happens' are just guessing, however firm in that belief they are. Each to their own, though.

As for abortion, there is definitely a grey area as to when the abortion is the taking of a life or the destruction of an organism. I tend to think, though, that this grey area has black and white on either side. At conception, you're in the white, but as time moves on you start to reach the grey area. I guess this must occur around when the foetus is developing, and the CNS is about to be created. I don't think abortion should carried out much after that, if at all. But before, I'm pro-choice (to use your american soundbite); for instance the 'morning after' pill - I don't think this is wrong.

And as for the part of the Christian anti-abortion lobby that shoots at doctors - I've got nothing but disdain for them.

V. funny Toad.

[This message has been edited by Dowding (edited 09-27-2000).]