Author Topic: The religion of environmentalism  (Read 1283 times)

Offline Sparks

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2006, 01:43:25 AM »
Mini - breathe man ...... calm down....

Where , anywhere, dig I take a dig at Christinaity ?? The Christian structure was raised in Chrichtons own article in his comparison of environmetalism to A religion.
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NOT ALL ENVIRONMENTALISTS THINK THAT WAY! when he's talking about fundamentalists and then pretending that all Christians do is, well, odd.

The fact that people are feeling insulted because they are being compared to Christians is... well... odd. It begins to explain exactly what the author is getting at, but you just don't get it.


You're right - I have absolutely no idea what you are on about there - I'm sorry it makes no sense to me
:confused:

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On what do you base your value system? Science? I mean... science defines your entire belief structure? Really?

Do you think there's anyone out there that actually believes that?

Everyone has a set of beliefs they operate under. Science does not tell you not to murder someone, not to steal, not to rape. That is a fundamental belief in something... good maybe? I wonder what scientist cooked that up.
 My value system ? I wouldn't say I have a "system".  I make don't consciously compare decisions to a specific set of rules - things are judged on an individual basis as they arrive.  No science does not tell you not to murder someone but any human being knows whether killing another is right or wrong at any particular time - and whether it is or not can change according to the situation.  Why does that decision making have to be aligned with a belief in "something" - a value set ?

You're reading WAY more into this debate than is there.
Going back to the original debate - my points were:-
1. The principle that real science is being lost or abused by pressure groups is valid and correct.
2. The comparison he made between environmental pressure groups and religious movements was hyped at best.
3. By making the comparison of the behaviour of environmentalists to fundamentalist religious nuts he alienates any useful data ther may be in that community.

It is counter productive. If you tear down the arguement and invalidate the evidence with proof the people who advanced it will fall.  You tear down the people and the arguement and evidence remains.

Offline Hap

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2006, 08:36:23 AM »
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Originally posted by Toad
The religion thing is not the argument. The science behind the environmentalism is.


In Francis Bacon's The New Atlantis you can see why some today hearld science as the rallying point of experience and discussion.

I disagree both with Bacon's premise and Crichton's.  

Thanks for the post.  It is a good read and worth reading.

hap

Offline lazs2

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2006, 09:18:42 AM »
sparks... we really don't know what you "believe" in but I am sure that you have plenty of beliefs that are faith based.  we all do... that was pretty much the point of the article.

To say that there are not nutjob environmentalists who have substituted environmentalism for other religions is to not be aware of your surroundings.

There is probly as many (percent wise) fundamental religious to religious ratio as their is fundamental whacko environmentalists to conservationists ratio.

I think the word that is the irritant is "religion"  if he were to just say core beliefs it would not have angered the athiests and nutjob environmentalists near as much.

lazs

Offline Mini D

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2006, 10:04:37 AM »
Yep... that's it lazs.

"Religion" is for idiots. Intelligent people are above it. Religion will run the world into the ground and only the intelligent will be able to save it. Join them or you will perish.

Offline beet1e

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2006, 12:06:35 PM »
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Originally posted by cpxxx
Those of you who think all this is 'twaddle'. Ask yourself why you believe so fervently in the cause of environmentalism or indeed religion. Does it stand up to scrutiny or is simply because you never thought to question what you have been told by others. Every now and then we should all sit  down and think about what we really believe.  You might be surprised
LOL Cpxxx - sorry for late response...

I don't consider myself to be "an environmentalist". I don't bother sorting my rubbish out into different types, and I don't participate in that kerbside recycling programme. I do take all glass to the bottle bank, but that's about it.

However I do believe the concerns expressed by scientists - lately by Attenborough - with regard to the effects of too much CO2 being released into the atmosphere, and the long term effects that this will have on planet Earth. OK, it's not going to happen next week, next month or next year, but I see no reason to doubt those climatology predictions given in the Attenborough programme: 38° in Britain on a June day in 2050 is definitely a cause for concern, what with a rising population and ailing water supply infrastructure.

However, I don't give a horse's arse about religion (never have, never will) and quite what the global warming issue has to do with religion remains a mystery. Still, I'm not interested in an explanation, I'm afraid. When it comes to religion, I simply switch off.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 12:08:49 PM by beet1e »

Offline DiabloTX

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2006, 01:09:32 PM »
Oh boy...here we go again.
"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Denmark I eat a danish for peace." - Diablo

Offline lazs2

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2006, 08:50:56 AM »
I guess anther thing that bothers me is that on this board... the ones that tell me I have to do this or that thing or give up this or that or I will destroy the planet.... when you corner them they claim to not be environmental whack jobs at all...

In fact.... they don't do anything they don't want to do so far as conservation.... they only want to ban things that they don't care about.

They would have me not own a toy that get's 12 mpg but they would jump in a jet to travel half way round the world to see a sight or a new resteraunt.... they would have me reduce emissions by some 0.000000013 percent for looks but can't be bothered to sort their own garbage..

The real problem is anyone whos religion or... core beliefs... allow them to think that they have the right to tell others what to do.  Any excuse... no matter how phony will do for such people...  they embrace every study no matter how bogus that will allow them to exert power over others.

lazs

Offline FUNKED1

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2006, 09:22:56 AM »
MANBEARPIG, I'M CEREAL!!!

Offline Thud

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2006, 10:25:50 AM »
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Originally posted by lukster
Would you agree that it is an "extremist" belief that man is altering the environment to the degree of inducing global warming which will have calamitous results? Or, are you one of those who don't see this view as extremist probably because you happen to be a believer?


I believe that our (mankind's) current knowledge on the subject does indicate that human activity (read emissions) does have some influence on global warming, whether this influence is substantial or even noticeable is still a matter of discussion. The former has been irrrefutably concluded in laboratory tests, till the latter is revealed further by science noone can claim the extent of global warming that is caused by human activity.

Reducing emissions as such is something we should all strive for when feasible alternatives are available, global warming in itself can currently not be used as a definitive and measurable argument to support that though.

So if someone says that the trend of global warming is caused entirely or for a given portion by pollution and he/she can not be swayed by the current ststus of scientific knowledge you might qualify it as extremist, I think though that both you and I will measure the extremism in this by the cure/solution the person in question proposes.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 10:28:57 AM by Thud »

Offline beet1e

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2006, 02:30:31 PM »
Wow Lazs - sounds really bad. Tell us - just WHO has told you that you have to give up any of the things that you hold dear? Anyone I know?

Offline lazs2

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2006, 02:48:07 PM »
wow thud... that is the best most reasonable post I have ever seen you do.

lazs

Offline Thud

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The religion of environmentalism
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2006, 04:22:27 PM »
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Originally posted by lazs2
wow thud... that is the best most reasonable post I have ever seen you do.

lazs


Maybe it is the exception that confirms the rule... ;)