Starship Troopers

[Toad]

I liked Heinlein's philosophy in ST.

I hope it DOES come down to the US military.

Who better than they to decide who should lay their lives on the line?

[Hamish]

I did too Toad, maybe a little harsh in some respects, but overall i think it was a good one. That book definately brought out some diferent ideas on the word "Citizen"

Hamish!

[Sancho]

[double post]

[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 11-09-2000).]

[Sancho]

Read the book a few years back when it was on the Commandant's reading list.  Loved it.  Later, when the movie came out, I was in Okinawa.  My battalion commander took the entire battalion to see the flick at the Camp Hansen theatre.  I think the movie really glossed over the ideas of Heinlein's book, but the Marines really liked the coed showers of the future.  I think there were a few converts on the women in combat issue.  

One idea I like from the book/movie:  You must be an honorably discharged veteran to vote, or run for office.  In fact, you need to be a vet to be a *citizen*.  Wow.

[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 11-09-2000).]

[StSanta]

Heh Henlein applied MASSIVE amounts of sarcasm when he did that. MASSIVE.

I have some friends who say "overdone" "unrealistic" (and they say films like Top Gun ARE realistic  ) and so forth.

But it's all just a massive piece of critique, masqueraded in action and liberally dipped in humour.

It's great, love that film.

And you get to see titties, too!

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
If I am understanding this correctly, he died while campaigning. Then afterwards, he won the election.

Voting for a dead guy.

This one goes to the book of "Stupid Laws Around The World".

That's beyond stupid. It's...BISHROOK!

Here, if ya die, yer outta politics. Yer party finds a replacement. And it ain't gonna be your wife, unless she's the best candidate.

Pretty easy solution. Sort of like "if you're dead, you ain't got a place as a forward in Barcelona. And if you held the place and died, your wife ain't getting it."

Hey, can I vote for Elvis? .

--
StSanta
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[Toad]

Read a biography of Heinlein.

Then read a few other books of his as well.

Responsibility and accountability are central to his main characters.

[Saintaw]

 

Originally posted by StSanta:...and they say films like Top Gun ARE realistic   (Image removed from quote.)) ...[/B]

Well, I wanted to pay you a visit, but since I now know you have friends like THAT...<brrr>

 

Saw

[leonid]

Actually, StSanta, Heinlein was a conservative, and Starship Trooper's depiction of the citizen was not as 'tongue in cheek' as you might think.  

The military are a necessity at this point in history, but they make only a segment of society.  The military's mission is to protect its nation, not run it.  You start thinking like that, and it's time to start calling someone 'dictator' or 'emperor'.  The Constitution was not a model for Imperium Romanum as I'm sure the Forefathers would agree.

[LJK Raubvogel]

The book is a classic, and I've worn out 3 copies of it. The movie was a shame, and I couldn't even finish watching it. Robert Heinlein was a man of great vision, and able to weave narratives of society into a compelling story.

------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Sancho]

Santa, were you referring to the book or the movie adaptation?  The movie *is* pretty cheesy, and kinda sarcastic in its portrayal of the military--influenced by the director's experiences growing up in Nazi-occupied Europe (listen to the director's comments on the DVD version).  It's good entertainment, but very different from Heinlein's book.

[-lynx-]

I don't think Heinlein wrote ST as a satire - he held very conservative views. Whether you agree with his ideas or not is another matter. I can certainly see where he was coming from.

 

The military are a necessity at this point in history, but they make only a segment of society. The military's mission is to protect its nation, not run it.

Leonid - I don't think people who served in the army can all be called "military". Plus you need to keep in mind when the book was written - it was not a professional army then. I don't think that modern "military" is exactly what Heinlein was writing about.

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lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 11-10-2000).]

[StSanta]

Sancho and Toad:

I am referring to the film only, which is quite different from the book.

I've read Henlein biographies and know where he stands.

Thought we were discussing the film, sorry.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
If I am understanding this correctly, he died while campaigning. Then afterwards, he won the election.

Voting for a dead guy.

This one goes to the book of "Stupid Laws Around The World".

That's beyond stupid. It's...BISHROOK!

Here, if ya die, yer outta politics. Yer party finds a replacement. And it ain't gonna be your wife, unless she's the best candidate.

Pretty easy solution. Sort of like "if you're dead, you ain't got a place as a forward in Barcelona. And if you held the place and died, your wife ain't getting it."

Hey, can I vote for Elvis? .

--
StSanta
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}

[Toad]

Movies....BAH!

Hollywood Movies....Double BAH!

I love to read. Always have. Books are wonderful.

Movies are rarely even worth discussing.

Apology accepted!  

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by leonid:
The military are a necessity at this point in history,

Leonid, after we got past "Adam and Eve" when was a "military" not a necessity in human history?

When do you expect that a society will be able to do without a "military".

I certainly don't think I'll live to see that day.