Why Selective Hand Balloting is Concerning.

[Fatty]

I don't actually think the hand counters are going to adjust the voting percentages, so let's go on the assumption the percentage of the vote per candidate remains exactly the same after the recount.

Any hand recount is going to increase the total number of votes counted, regardless of who those votes are for.  Well, this can't be bad, can it?  After all, we want everyone's vote to count, right?  Given the above statement of voting percentages remaining exactly the same, Republicans have no valid gripe, right?  Wrong.

Each precinct is going to have some votes not counted, be it filled in incorrectly, not quite punched out, bubble not quite filled in, you name it.  Of course everyone's vote should be counted, if we can come up with a better method I'm all for it (personally I like the "outdated" booths).

The problem is if you selectively recount votes in areas predominantly one party or the other what you are doing is weighting those areas over the others, because a larger percentage of votes do get their votes counted.  The end effect is equivalent to an increase in total voters in party-specific areas.

Yes, yes, I'm cold and uncaring and should want everyone's vote to count, but the fact is anything short of a total Florida recount will not give an accurate representation of that state's votes.  No, I don't want a total recount, but selective recounts could well turn the election, whether they take advantage of "the potential for mischief" or not.

[Toad]

Exactly so, Fatty.

It seems one side in this affair doesn't see it that way, however.

 

[F4UDOA]

Heya's

Republicans just did a hand count in New Mexico to put George Doubleya up by 17 votes. Why is it not fair for the Democrats?

BTW, the actual number of discounted votes in West Palm beach is 30,000 not 20,000. The extra 10k are the ballots that did not register at all in the machine. I think 30,000 people have a right to be heard.

Later
F4UDOA

[LJK Raubvogel]

Couldn't say it any better myself. Basically, the residents of 4 counties are choosing the President, regardless of the votes and wishes of the rest of the state.

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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Cobra]

F4UDOA,
Was the hand count State wide in NM?

If so, than the hand count should be state wide in FLA.

Actually any sort of recount...hand or otherwise should always be preformed on a State-Wide Basis.  It is consistent and fair, not the choose your favorite Democratic County to hand count farce we have going on right now.  Afterall, isn't that the best way to get a "full, fair and accurate count" for the state's electoral votes.

Cobra

[Fury]

According to what I read on cnn, Palm Beach County will be thrown out as of 5pm tomorrow anyways.  Apparently, Florida state law says voting must be certified by 5pm tomorrow or the results are tossed in the garbage.

Unless some lawyers can get their hands in it (and what are the chances of that happening   ) it sounds like the recount talk will be moot by 5pm tomorrow.
 http://www.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/13/president.election/index.html

Fury

[LJK Raubvogel]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Heya's

Republicans just did a hand count in New Mexico to put George Doubleya up by 17 votes. Why is it not fair for the Democrats?

BTW, the actual number of discounted votes in West Palm beach is 30,000 not 20,000. The extra 10k are the ballots that did not register at all in the machine. I think 30,000 people have a right to be heard.

Later
F4UDOA

Those 30,000 people did have a chance to be heard. They just weren't smart enough to use it correctly.



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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps

[Toad]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
Heya's

Republicans just did a hand count in New Mexico to put George Doubleya up by 17 votes. Why is it not fair for the Democrats?

....I think 30,000 people have a right to be heard.

Later
F4UDOA

F4, try to stick to the facts in this, OK?

From:  http://www.usatoday.com/news/vote2000/pres24.htm


"Gore's election-night lead of 6,825 votes dwindled to 17 votes after 252 missing votes were discovered in a locked box at the county election warehouse and 60,000 absentee, damaged and early-voting ballots were tabulated.

State police began seizing ballots over the weekend. They expect to impound all the ballots today in case they are needed for a recount or review later."

There has been no "recount" in NM. As far as this report is concerned, it was a "first count". Now do you have information that contradicts this?

Lastly, anyone who completed a valid ballot has a "right to be heard". That's the issue.

Anyone who expects a machine to figure who they voted for after they punch two holes for one national office didn't complete a valid ballot.

Of course, that would mean personal responsibility and accountability, wouldn't it? Can't have that now can we?

[Fatty]

I didn't like the idea of the recount in New Mexico either F4UDOA, and I'm a bit concerned on the Republican response of we'll match you on selective vote recounts.

[Fury]

Quote from Mr. Gore himself:

"That is what I am focused on," Gore said. "Not the contest, but our democracy. I would not want to win the presidency by a few votes cast in error or misinterpreted or miscounted, and I don't think Governor Bush does either."

'Misinterpreted':  let's let the people recounting by hand decide what this voter intended to do.  Some democracy.

Fury

[Dowding]

<From the outside looking in>

I can't blame either side resorting to ethically dubious tactics when the stakes are so high, and I think there are no angels in any of this.

For what it's worth, re-counts should be state-wide, from the point of view of trying to ensure a fair process.

[Lance]

Yep, I agree with that, Fatty.  Its one of the main reason's I'm disappointed in the Dem's right now.

I haven't been able to keep up with events today.  Has the judges ruling against Bush in his attempt to stop the recounts affected Harris' recount deadline at all?  I know she said she expected the Florida vote count to be done by this weekend barring judicial intervention.

Gordo

[Mighty1]

Yes the judge dismissed the case but as of 10 min ago 1 of the 3 counties (Volusia)that were doing the re-re-count was finished with a small gain for Bush and the 2nd (Broward) finished 3% and said it didn't see enough of a change(for Bore) to continue.

So this leaves Palm Beach who hasn't even started to re-re-count. If the courts don't change the law to allow Palm Beach to alter it's votes then it should be over by 5 pm tomorrow.

[Eagler]

The 20k or 30k of votes is misleading. On purpose by the media and our democrat friends. These are the TOTAL votes cast in error, the majority of which were re-cast prior to the voter leaving the voting booth. Amazing how that tid bit of info is left out. Duval County (Jacksonville, with it's three huge naval bases)had over 20k of these errored voted. Funny how this county was not selected by the democrats for a recount. Maybe because Bush won there and they knew they would not be able to steal the decision.

Just heard this morning, they "found" a hand counting error of 600 votes which were first counted as 100 in New Mexico giving gore the lead there now. Another argument against hand counting. With enough time, money and influence - the outcome of this election will not in any way resemble the true will of its people. American politics at its finest.........

Eagler