Screw it - Time to cleanse the world of ALL Islamic radicals

[Boroda]

Toad, instead of spending billions of dollars on supproting terrorists in the Balkans - better send your troops and show us exactly HOW we should fight. No doubt you could walk directly into Grozniy with flowers in your hands and persuade them to lay down their arms.

[Toad]

Jeez, Boroda.

We sent them to Iraq. You didn't figure it out then?

We sent them to Bosnia. You didn't figure it out then?

They're working in Afghanistan now. Are you figuring it out now?

 

[gavor]

Dont jump on me for this but, this is the most amusing thread ive read for ages. Its nice to see so many patriots, arguing left and right and not listening to each other at all. It reminds me why Australia is so nice  .

And lastly, Australia turns up in a conflict, situation made good, Australia go home. End of story.

G

note: no yelling, im just mucking around. i'm not knocking anyones opinions, i respect everyones right to say what they like. Please, carry on. This thread is most educational.

[Boroda]

Toad, you send them to Iraq - and they don't go far enough to even shake the Saddam's regime. Status Quo is maintained, minus 150000 civilians (who cares?).

You send them to Bosnia to fight Serbian minorities while Bosnian authorities give Bin Laden papers of a Honorable Citizen. Thanks, I couldn't have thought of a worse example.

Afghan "operation" is still a strange and unpredictable thing, while it's all oveк now in Chechnya.

Gavor, I envy you   My Mom lives in Australia, and what he tells me is almost a paradise on Earth. Just curious: can you remind me about the details of the story with meat prices and US-Australian trade relations?

[Toad]

Boroda,

Everyone knows that the Coalition forces did not kill 150,000 civilians in the Gulf War.

You are deliberately "misinforming"
and you know it.

It's cheap; but hey, if you've got nothing else to base your position on except lies....

As I said before in this thread:

"150,000 Iraqi civilians died DURING the Gulf War? I call BS. Prove your statement. Supply some sources."

But you can't... you can't find a SINGLE refrence for that. Because it's BS.

There have been no precise estimates of civilian casualties during the war that I can find. Most estimates of Iraqi casualties from ANY "reputable" source have been broad ranging. Worst I've seen is estimates of Iraqi civilian death ranging from 100 to 35,000, some with a higher lower figure but lower high end, ie: "5,000--15,000 Iraqi civilians died during the war."

By the admission of RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS, more than that died in the FIRST Chechen war alone... perhaps 15,000 just in the TWO MONTH shelling of Grozny. In just the FIRST Chechen war.

Estimates vary of the total number of casualties caused by the war. Russian Interior Minister Kulikov claimed that fewer than 20,000 civilians were killed while then-Secretary of the National Security Council Aleksandr Lebed asserted that 80,000 to 100,000 had been killed and 240,000 had been injured.


...and you also know Saddam was ours for the taking. I'll agree that we should have gone on to Baghdad. But Bush Sr., Powell and various other world leaders decided it would be too destablizing.  

However, even you are intelligent enough to realize that the military situation was ENTIRELY in favor of coaltion forces. All the Iraqis could have done in a prolonged fight is DIE by the thousands.

So, it wasn't because "our style" of fighting that Saddam is still in power. It was a failure of will by the leadership.

Bosnia? The EXAMPLE it that the killing is OVER. Sounds like we were pretty effective in achieving the goals of the world community/UN.

Russia, OTOH is in ROUND 2 in Chechnya. Despite massed artillery barrages and FAR more civilian deaths than IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN COMBINED... the killing in Chechnya goes on.  Sounds like Russia has NOT been very effective in stopping the killing.

I couldn't think of a better example either.  

[Tumor]

Originally posted by Toad:
Boroda,

Everyone knows that the Coalition forces did not kill 150,000 civilians in the Gulf War.

Very True

You are deliberately "misinforming"
and you know it.

...of course he know's it.  And it shall continue as long as people offer to respond to his drivel.

It's cheap; but hey, if you've got nothing else to base your position on except lies....

....Actually I'd almost believe he's misinformed himself, by choice of course.

As I said before in this thread:

"150,000 Iraqi civilians died DURING the Gulf War? I call BS. Prove your statement. Supply some sources."

...Now you KNOW he'll refer to all the poor Iraqi civilians who've died due to sanctions.  Geez dude, everyone know's Saddam makes sure every last dollar and every last crumb of food, and every single medication sent as aid reaches the Iraqi populace.  All those extravegant palaces and "VIP" residences he's built/building come from funds donated happily by the Iraqi peoples and anyone who wants may use them at thier request.  Aww shucks, Saddam is one of the most honest and careing dictators in History..sheesh.


...and you also know Saddam was ours for the taking. I'll agree that we should have gone on to Baghdad. But Bush Sr., Powell and various other world leaders decided it would be too destablizing.    

Actually, Bush plainly stated before and after the Gulf War, AND recently (last week) that the intent of the Gulf War was to boot Iraq out of Kuwait.  It was agreed on EARLY on that removing Saddam from power by brute military force was NOT on the agenda.  So a politician keeps his word and the world bashes him for it for 10yrs...oh well

However, even you are intelligent enough to realize that the military situation was ENTIRELY in favor of coaltion forces. All the Iraqis could have done in a prolonged fight is DIE by the thousands.

bet this is a debatable statement hehe, just watch, the U.S. is soft and scummy don't ya know

Russia, OTOH is in ROUND 2 in Chechnya. Despite massed artillery barrages and FAR more civilian deaths than IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN COMBINED... the killing in Chechnya goes on.  Sounds like Russia has NOT been very effective in stopping the killing.

but...thats ok, Chechens aren't really people anyway, and every last one has an alter built to OBL

I couldn't think of a better example either.      [/qb]

Tumor    

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Tumor ]

[gavor]

I'd rather not get into a debate about trade relations when the current debate is already going so well  .

I wouldn't go so far as saying Australia is paradise on earth, i'd say the trick is just to leave other people alone if possible and not take up flag waving at every opportunity. Go have a beer, sit down, read a book, play some AH.

War is a horrible, messy, terrible, frightening and dehumanising situation. The normal rules of niceness dont apply anymore and things happen that you'd never dream of at home in peaceful times. History is full of these types of war. War is not clean, war is not full of glory and hurrahs to the victor. It never has been and if someone trys to tell you thats what war is like, beat some sense into them.
The nature of conflict has never changed but they have become smaller and less prolific. The world doesnt see as many slaughters and what not but dont be fooled into thinking they wont happen anymore.

Thats enough for now, sorry if its all a bit jumbled, im at work. Theres not much time to plan a proper essay  .


Have fun all, think of me working.

G