Spit vs P38

[Schutt]

Hi Phil,

i see your thread got hijacked a bit. I highlighted some parts of your post and gave it numbers.

Originally posted by Phil
Need all the help you can give....

Pilot skills: average pilot. I know the basic rules before engaging(light on fuel, best speed for turning radius, flaps....)

Scenario: 15k alt with Spit9/50%fuel/fresh ammo
Head on with P38. With respect, I don't go for HO shots. Lets fight with skills and maneovers etc...

My speed well over 400+. His speed I assume(1) would be about the same.
Zooooom we go side by side(2). I looked behind and I want to
keep my nose level/ bit downward to gain distance/speed before making my next move(3)....
Now I pay attention to his distance 800yds and then 1000yds
now he's banking hard and I'm still going approx 450-475mph in the opposite direction....(4)
Next thing I see is him closing in:confused: 900yds-800yds-700yds
You know the rest of the story:cry


How the hell can a plane go by me when I'm doin' 400+, proceed with a hard turn or stall turn and then catch up when I'm divin' doing 475+(5)


For you P38 vets(6), can you give me some advice on WHAT I SHOULDN'T DO when encountering "you". Don't mind losing, but don't like being too easy. I want to have a GOOD SCRAP  

For those of you who shot me down, I'm not a quiter !
Give me time and I'LL BE BACK:rofl

Phil
OPP7755:aok

(1) Filming helps. As others say your speed and his speed estimations are doubtful.

Often when i check a Situation on film it turns out the other plane had 5k alt advantage and dove down to my alt before i saw him, zooming in with over 500mph while i do 300mph cause i barely lvled and havent accelerated. Or i kept flying his direciton and he was slightly higher, pushing me in a climb and only having 250mph instead of my usual 350.

Checking http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php either both of you already had a good dive before the engagement or none of you had more than 370mph. The Dive/lineup/Climb/Slowdown is a verry important part of a 1v1 combat and since you dont say anything about it we can only speculate that he had the better tactic here already.


(2) Side by side? Probably his nose was facing up and yours down, if he was eaven flying straight at all and has not already started to turn around.

Usually in a merge you try to gain an advantage, this can be an angle helping you to turn to his tail, a separation that you already start using (and he doesnt) or facing nose up with the other guy facing nose down.

You can gain an angle when you start turning slightly before he does, including some other parameters. i.e. if you do it to early he can use it against you. Also it is favorable to pass him below or to the side, where taking advantage of the side pass is a not that easy. Might be in this case you want to pass directly and without angle to deny him that advantage.

I said nose - up on a direct pass is favorable? It puts you into a climb, decelerating, which makes it easier to turn around faster than he does while the other plane is in a dive, which either lets him loose a lot of energy turning around or time pulling the plane into a climb.

(3) As others mentioned that is worst you can do. Against any opponent it is necessary that you turn around and bring your guns on him, otherwise you give him time to sit straight behind you. If the other plane is slower you can get away and try again, but if hes faster he will catch you and be in a verry good position behind you. Better than that put your nose up and turn around. It doesnt matter if you do a "perfect" move or not, but turning around or eaven doing a climb will put you in a much better situation.


(4) Now he is probably far higher than you and turns around when slow, after that he dives down on you. That is a good strategy to fight & keep energy, fly straight when fast and to turn climb / turn / dive.

(5)When he climbs / turns / accelerates/ dives he gains energy, because when he climbes his engine pulls him, when he accelerate his engine pulls him. When you do a constant dive at above the speed that your aircraft does at the corresponding alts in lvl flight you LOOSE energy, since you have to use extra altitute to keep the speed you fly and eaven more to accelerate. So while he went climbing you startet loosing energy. Every second that you fly above the max speed of your plane you loose energy.


(6)Now, if you two were in the same plane he would have probably still got you. So while i am not an p38 pilot there is not much P38ing to that. Still, when you look at the charts the P38 gets a speed advantage below 15k and will catch up with you anyway.


Overall you dont have the time to plan and the plan usually changes every moment, so whatever plan you do it will be obsolete if it doesnt (A) Improoves your position imidiatly (B)kills the other guy shortly. I think spit 9 against P38 is a good match especially at 15k, i would try to turn around fast and get a shot using the size of the p38 against it.

The way you write it you should really read up on merges & energy as well as  trying to find someone to teach you, maybe join a squad to get some more input. I am a pretty bad pilot myself, otherwise i would offer you a ride or some winging, but maybe you try to join someones plane and see how he does it or ask other pilots  to do some duels in TA & DA for praktice. Good time to do that is when the combat in the arena is uneven and the situation verry boring.

[Benny Moore]

As a five year P-38 flier, I can say with certainty that if you are in a Spitfire and you get outmaneuvered by a P-38, you really might want to consider flying heavy bombers.

[Schatzi]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
As a five year P-38 flier, I can say with certainty that if you are in a Spitfire and you get outmaneuvered by a P-38, you really might want to consider flying heavy bombers.

Dont you think thats a little uncalled for in Help and Training Forum?

[BaldEagl]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
As a five year P-38 flier, I can say with certainty that if you are in a Spitfire and you get outmaneuvered by a P-38, you really might want to consider flying heavy bombers.

LOL.  That was FUNNY and I largely agree with you but as ten year Spit pilot (this game and it's predessesor), as you might have ascetained, I've run into some wiley and talented P38 pilots.  If I've learned one thing in this time it's that you never want to enter a fight assuming anything.  In the right hands any plane can beat virtually any other.  I've had P40's give me fits and there's no way they should be able to do that.  It all depends on who's piloting that con you're engaging.

[Ack-Ack]

If you're in a Spitfire against a P-38 and you find yourself in an angles fight keep the speed in the medium range (250mph IAS to 150mph IAS).   Don't take the fight vertical unless you have an overwhelming energy advantage otherwise the P-38 will easily kill you if you do.



ack-ack

[The Fugitive]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
As a five year P-38 flier, I can say with certainty that if you are in a Spitfire and you get outmaneuvered by a P-38, you really might want to consider flying heavy bombers.


Originally posted by Schatzi
Dont you think thats a little uncalled for in Help and Training Forum?

The only P38 flying benny has done in the last 5 years is one of those toys where you whip around at the end of a string ! While Im no pro at the 38 most of the info benny has posted is way off.

Schutt and Ack-Ack have the best info here.  Remember Phil alot of these guys have 1000's of hours "flying" these planes and know many little tricks that get them the kills. Practice and time will bring you up to their abilities too. What you need to learn here is what Aces High planes fly like. Other sims do it different ways and while the basics can translate to this game, I would take the rest with a grain of salt.

[SAS_KID]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
In level flight you and the P38 are close but you have a definite climb advantage and if the P38 pilot doesn't know how to properly use flaps a turn advantage.
Hope this helps.  Have fun.

I would like to see this.....and never assume if's.....if's get ya killed....... one way to beat a 38 is to keep him in the horizontal in the mid speed range where he can't get all of his flaps out or allow him to force a vertical fight.

[DREDIOCK]

Originally posted by BaldEagl
The main thing to remember no matter what you fly is to use your plane's strengths and exploit you opponent's weaknesses.

 

This is sound advise.

But it will be hard to know the weaknesses of your opponents plane if you have never flown it. And you can learn only so much by what you read here.
And no offence to spit drivers. but you simply arent going ot learn very much from just driving spits.

Take a day out a week (or night as the case may be) and take the time to learn the other planes as well.
Learn their strengths and weaknesses first hand and not just by what you read.

Then when you do climb in your spit and go up against these planes you will have at least a first hand working knowledge of what they typically can and cant do. And what they are prone to do in certain situations.
You may even learn how to use an opponents strengths against him

This will put you in a much better position to be able to fight against these planes.

Also. Never never never underestimete your opponent no matter what they are in.
always assume you are going against the best

There are alot of guys here that can very quickly turn a situation from what looks like an easy kill. to the fight of your life at a moments notice

[zorstorer]

Originally posted by Benny Moore
As a five year P-38 flier, I can say with certainty that if you are in a Spitfire and you get outmaneuvered by a P-38, you really might want to consider flying heavy bombers.

You mean this isnt helpful Schatzi?

[Simaril]

Phil:

I've been in the game for just under 3 years, and its my first serious attempt at a flight sim. I feel your pain.

I also have an "I can do this myself if I try hard enough" personality. Trying that in AH was a huge mistake -- I wish I would have gone to a trainer much sooner than I did.


Here's why:

Doing the right thing poorly will win 80% of the time So much depends on a few concepts and tactics. A couple sessions with a dogfight teacher and you'll be amazed at how much better your combat goes.


Good tactics aren't natural (for most of us) Stumbling through will very rarely give the breakthrough insights that make for good ACM. Some people have an intuition that lets them see the right thing to do, even if they cant explain why its right. The vast, vast majority (like me) do the opposite -- we keep making the same mistakes and can't figure out why they aren't working!

Seeing a trainer would have cut 6-12 months off my learning curve. Set up a session, then practice what you learn for a few weeks. Keep doing that, and you'll be very pleased with the results.

[Phil]

Thanks again !
I've read, absorbed and put your input into practice.
I've attended the Taining Arena and flew with some good pilots.
Scraps/fights have been recorded and studied carefully....

TIME HEALS MANY THINGS:aok

ps. When playin' the game, pay attention to the "host" msg.

OPP7755 has landed "X" victories in a SPITIX:D

Its working !

Phil

[Schatzi]

Awesome!