Thanks daddog. I have to first sy that sondog is a phenomenal player, had he not gone into the flat turn I never would have gotten him. second I was in a 109G6, if I fly the 109G2 anymore I feel like I'm cheating. the sequence was full flaps 75% throttle cranking it full as needed then throttling back to 75% and slight rudder into the direction of the turn. on the other hand creton came into the arena and made me feel like fool, he in a corsair and me in a 109G6. the man is just an awesome player. I'm glad for the asswhippings and the films I was able to get.