P-38 advice

[devgru]

P-38 is a great aircraft i just need some help with it. can anyone just supply me with some basic facts about it.
-best way to fight in it
-defensive tactics
-weaknesses...those kind of things.. it would be very appreciated..ty

[Blagard]

I don't fly it but when I fight it there are points for and against it.

Low and slow like everything, it is dead meat and a big target!

A very good E fighter that can stay on top of you if it starts there. I think this is the aircrafts biggest plus. Get above the enemy and stay there. Don't get drawn into co-alt turn fights. A tough B & Z plane to get back at when its - "up there"

Turns pretty good with flaps, but needs the right pilot to get the best out of it in this situation. Most P38 that are turning slow with flaps are dead to my Spit. Some P38 pilots show excellent skill of making this hard work for me!

Seems to hang on its props like no other aircraft! So zooming up is a great way to "rope a dope"

To fight it I try and drag it down! and get it turning!

[The Fugitive]

tho I'm a bit bias    the 38 is one of the very best planes in the set. Its not great at any one thing, but its VERY good in just about everything.

You can start a fight as an "E" fighter and there are not many that will stay with you, but should you make a mistake and get slow, it will turn with just about anything.

I take 75% fuel and a drop tank. Use the tank to get you to the fight, and even do some of your BnZin with it still on. If ya have to get down and dirty, just drop the tank and go for it. In the zoom climb not much can stay with ya as you can hang on your props at 50 knots and still have some control (combat trim off or auto trimming can get you stuck in the air with nose up trim). Use vertical maneuvers to bleed other planes "E".

Only real problem with the 38 is the size, she's a big target. At medium/high speeds she rolls real well. Use this to give the enemy passes a narrow profile to shoot at, roll back and kill them as they go by.

[Fianna]

To clarify a little bit of what Fugi said...

The "L" model rolls well at high speeds because it has boosted ailerons. The "J" and "G" models, which don't have boosted ailerons, don't roll well at high speeds.




Another thing is that the pilot is not protected by an engine in front of him or a tail behind him, so pilot wounds are a lot more common when flying 38's. It also suffers from compression when the speed gets around 450 mph and higher.

[DblTrubl]

Originally posted by Fianna
Another thing is that the pilot is not protected by an engine in front of him or a tail behind him, so pilot wounds are a lot more common when flying 38's.

It's implied in this statement but I thought it was worth emphasis. Head-on attacks are not your friend! Avoid them whenever possible (it usually is) except as a last resort. I've been known to HO zekes from time to time but it's still not my preferred MO.

I've had folks ask me to teach them how to fight in the P-38 before and I don't think there's an easy answer. The "Not great at anything, but good at everything" saying comes into play here. The Lightning doesn't have that one outstanding quality that it can use as a trump card to win (or um..extend) such as the Spits turn, the 109s climb, or the speed of a P-51 La7 etc. The key is knowing the matchups. You need to know how the 38 performs in just about any situation and you need to know the strengths and weaknesses of the enemy planes you're facing so you can exploit the weak points and avoid playing to their stong suits. This means that you have to be able to fight any style of fight. BnZ, TnB, E fighting, or even a combination of all three. The only way to do this (at least for me it was) is to fly it and die in it...a lot. It might be discouraging at times but the payoff is soo worth it when it finally clicks for you. The side benefit is that once you get good in a 38 your skills will be well rounded and your knowledge of the planeset will be such that you'll be fairly proficient in just about anything.

[Fianna]

Good advice is to avoid HO's in every plane. Usually a lose-lose situation... You might kill him, buy you'll get damaged in the process. It also puts you at a disadvantage for the rest of the fight if the other pilot avoids your HO.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Fianna

Another thing is that the pilot is not protected by an engine in front of him or a tail behind him, so pilot wounds are a lot more common when flying 38's. It also suffers from compression when the speed gets around 450 mph and higher.

P-38 will only enter into a compressability state in dives above 20,000ft.  At lower altitudes where the air is thicker and the mach threshold higher, the P-38 can dive without fear.  but just like any other plane, high speed buffets from the air flow can cause the controls to become sluggish around 450-475MPH.  But you're not experiencing compressability.

Below 10,000ft, you can reach 500mph and have control but again, it will be a little sluggish.  

Obviously, using your throttle and rudders in a dive is a good way to keep your speed under control.


ack-ack

[Benny Moore]

My advise, for what it's worth, is to trim the elevator to neutral at the beginning of every flight and leave it there.  Only use it when you're compressing.

[Murdr]

Originally posted by Fianna
Another thing is that the pilot is not protected by an engine in front of him or a tail behind him, so pilot wounds are a lot more common when flying 38's.

A shortfall of the damage model in my opinion.  A round has to go through all this

which should send it tumbling or deform a majority of projectiles before it reaches this

Dick Bong in an effort to save a crippled P-38 once shut off one engine and dropped between the stricken P-38 and the zero attacking it as a diversion.  Once the crippled 38 got away, he fired up his 2nd engine and motored away from the zeke.  He crashed it while attempting to land at his base due to the damage he recieved.  The ship was a total loss.  His seat armor had 18 rounds in it.  Try that in AH.

Back to the original question......

Originally posted by Murdr
Our P-38L-5-LO has boosted aelirons, and dive recovery flaps.
Our P-38J-10-LO has neither.

P-38J and P-38L have nearly identical performance.  Both are rated in the game for the same horsepower, but the L is slightly heavier.  This should give a slight edge to the J in acceleration, and in  sustained turns.  However the difference is so small it should be all but inperceptable to any but the hard core 38 pilots.  

The L with its boosted controls has an exceptional roll rate at higher speeds.  Its rocket mounting configuration is the best of the three, and is least affected by aero and drag issues once the rocket load is all salvoed.

Know your ACM.  A mistake in ACM choice in the 38 will be much more costly than it would be in a more nimble plane such as a spitfire or n1k.  When I fill requests for P-38 training, I find that most actually need ACM training.  The reason being is that they have been making those same mistakes in the more nimble fighters, but are able to recover from them out of sheer turn performance.  

Use the vertical as much as possible.  There are planes that the 38 cannot compete with in sustained flat turns, but when you add a vertical component to the turns, the match-up is much closer.  Take advantage of the 38's zero net torque.  The 38 can zoom down to 0 mph, while other fighters are fighting torque for control of their nose.  Make the other plane turn aginst his torque when possible.

Feel free to check out the 479th Library with over 40 films, 95% of which are P-38.

 

Here are a few P-38 related threads that might help.
Thread: How to turn the P38L well?????????
help from the 38 jocks out there please
Speaking of P-38's and flaps...
yet another 38 film Flying defensively

[Traveler]

Originally posted by devgru
P-38 is a great aircraft i just need some help with it. can anyone just supply me with some basic facts about it.
-best way to fight in it
-defensive tactics
-weaknesses...those kind of things.. it would be very appreciated..ty

Come fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes, late war arena, Knights, vox 113 on any Saturday night starting at 7PM EST.  We  fly the P38 only.  P38L in the Attack role and P38J for Fightet Support.  CO is Gunston, XO Traveler.

[Karnak]

Murdr,

The Mosquito Mk VI's front stuff looks very much the same with guns and armor.

Does the Mossie just as much good in AH as it does the P-38 too, nearly none.

[Spikes]

Originally posted by Fianna






Another thing is that the pilot is not protected by an engine in front of him or a tail behind him, so pilot wounds are a lot more common when flying 38's. It also suffers from compression when the speed gets around 450 mph and higher.

yes...you can take the risk to HO him....but you are very vulerable yourself