HST - Mediterranean League- Frame 2

[busc]

Hi pilots of HST,
                   I  am really an happy man
 
..74 of us got some fun flying and fighting during this frame 2 of HST and I am proud being one of em!
 
Now...Few, but important stuff ....
 
1) Busc and Manedew will be the allies Group Leaders for the future frames of this first league of HST..
 
2) Full scores and Frame 3 orders are being published in few
 
3)We are going to have a full HST players census to discover exactly how many pilots are going to show on next Saturday Frame.
 
4) In frame 3 allies will have planed missions with waypoints and new GLs.
 
3) I am sorry for huge amount of mess that submerged allies during the first minutes of last frame...As You know that was mainly caused by the incomprehensible Wolf37's orders to "ignore the allies
planned-missions" and to land after the "GoGoGo".....(This way the allies suddenly lost 11 pilots )
...But even if this appeared to be a big problem, it was easily resolved..Thanks to the efforts of many devoted HST pilots we managed to recover that messy situation in about 5 minutes and allies frame 2 went really good, even with inferior numbers ...We kicked so many 190s asses, that both the 190s squadrons were almost eliminated and captured 2 fields in Sicily! (WTG!!...Many Many Many thanks to people like Manedew, kbman, Dowding, Pepino to mention only the COs!:))
 
4)....What was happening?
 The great majority of the HST players stayed and during the frame they admitted having some serious fun ... The allies had a great frame and some 190s axis members resigned after being mass-killed (easy to say "i resign" after such a defeat )
 
5) Wolf37 resignation: Wolf offered me by mail his resignation as allies Group Leader...I accept.
Allies GL will be: Busc and Manedew.
 
Why I am happy to accept wolf resignation as allies GL:
 
 - Wolf was never booted by me from Med. Arena (I was the only one able to do that there, and i never did it)..He left his guys alone in the arena after:
 -ordering to    ignore all allies missions (which were created BY CMs with only starting field and plane-type..On purpose to mantain secrecy and freedom of action for both sides,)  
 - Not replying to CMs when asking if he was able to use mission planner to modify missions before the frame and correct "errors".
 
 - During the 23--27 october week: never replying to my mails askin what was ready in Allies side (actually it seems that nothing was ready).
 
- This is the truth..The consequences of losing Hangtime were catastrophic..Hang was more than precious for the HST...I never choose "wolf37" as allies GL (=Group Leader). He was chosen by my collaborators as "stop-gap" solution after Hangtime resignation (and Hangtime resignation was determined by very serious real life  problems.
Me, Camo and Zig talked by mail with Hang and discovered he had really no time to help us with this videogame scenario cause of his personal problems)...Hangtime is a great guy and all med league  CMs(Camo+busc+zig) trusted in his ability to gather and organize  the allied side...We were not  wrong, he is  an experienced/talented organizer and leader, the good one for such an event..but, things went wrong and, and he had to leave..He was not in the right moment to help us sustaining the pressure of such a big, complex and ambitious project...
 
5) Have a great day all
                            BuSc

[wolf37]

Hello:

on Saturday, Oct, 28th the Med league had its second frame. I was in command of the allied
forces. now here is what took place.

Since Hangtime resigned one week ago, I took the job in hopes of helping the allied team.
I spent all week trying to find out from all the squad CO's how many planes they lost in
frame one, how many planes did they shoot down in frame one.

Now do to personal problems or what ever, a couple of the allied CO's also resigned, so I had
to replace them. I was able to get replacement CO's to take over the squads.

Now during the week, I sent out e-mails to the squad CO's with there orders for what they
would be doing in frame two.

now I did not know that of the two squads who lost there starting fields, one of them would
be able to fly because the allies captured one field. this info was sent to me by busc on Friday
night at 12:30 my time. so letting that squad know it would be flying was not going to
happen untill they showed up on Saturday. but since they thought they would not be flying,
who knows if they would even show up. they did show up and I was able to let them know
they would be flying.

well, after sending out the squad orders, it seemed like things should go not to bad, untill
busc decided to help out with the mission planner.

To start with, he moved my squad, the RAF 234 spit squad to field a18, from a7, except that
my squad started at a15.

the 43th spit squad under the command of kbman had started at a7, and was now upping at
a15.

the 609 typhoon squad was to have been moved the week before to a15 by Hangtime, but
zig set up the planner leaving them at a9. I got that straighted out with Zig and told
Manedew his squad would be at a15. busc had put them back at a9 in the mission planner.

I moved the 39th P38 squad from a11 to a5, busc's planner put them back at a11.

well know the squad CO's are asking me what is happening as the planner seems to be
wrong. I told the squad COs not to use the mission planner.

Now the B17 squad in the planner was loaded with 100% fuel, anybody that has flown the
B17 knows that with 100% fuel, it will take for ever to get high enough to avoid the acks,
and seeing how the frame is only two hours long, might be just a tad to much fuel.

the 234 spit squad was to defend a15 and a18, and with the 43th spit squad now in the
frame, it to would help with the defence of a15 and a18. so one has to wounder why they
would be loaded with bombs, unless it was so they could try and bomb the enmey fighters
and bombers.

Now her is the mission planner totally screwed up, and busc telling all the allied pilots they
had to use the planner. I told busc it was wrong and we would not use it. he said he would set
it up so squad CO's could edit the planner. well as a squad CO, i could not edit the planner,
after busc said he changed it. I know manedew was trying but could not edit the planner. I
did not ask any other CO's as it seemed it was not working. I told busc we would not use the
planner, he said we had to use the planner, because with out it we could not launch.

well the time came for everybody to go, and as the planner was wrong, I told all the allied
pilots to land and log off. then I told busc on the open ch that I had informed all allied pilots
to land and log. he then asked me why, I told him, next thing I knew, I was out of the game.
was I booted or did I get disconnected, well I dont know as I have never been booted before
to know how it works. but right after I told busc why I landed the allied planes I was out of
the game.

Now is there a few problems that have to be worked out here, you bet there is. will busc
agree that he screwed up, not a chance. he has decided that I am to blame for all the screw
ups and he has done nothing wrong. well let the rest of the allied CO's answer that one, they
know what orders they received and how the mission planner was set up.


As for you saying you did not chooce me to lead the allied forces, you are right. as a matter
of fact, you did not choose anybody, did you even ask anybody to do the job. and if you did
not want me as the Commanding officer of the allied forces, then you should have said
something.

you screwed up here 100% busc, you, not me.
and now you are trying to say you did everything right and I just went out of my way to ruin
it for everybody.

now lets hear what you have to say to prove me wrong. tell us all how you knew what the
allies where doing and how you know what is best for the allied team. tell us all how you
well flying for the axis team, are even allowed to set up the allied team mission planner. with
so many screw ups, one might have to wounder what you where really up to
because I know I am woundering.

well now I wait to hear what you have to say.

wolf37

[This message has been edited by wolf37 (edited 10-30-2000).]

[Suave1]

I don't know if this is usefull info or not . You cannot edit the waypoints with the mission planner, it is a known bug .

[LLv34_Camouflage]

 

Originally posted by Suave1:
You cannot edit the waypoints with the mission planner, it is a known bug.

Delete the waypoints and redo them.  This is probably quicker than editing, anyway.  

Axis CO - Camo



------------------
Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
 www.muodos.fi/LLv34

Brewster into AH!

"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."

[kbman]

Hi all,
       I am not sure which thread is the appropriate place to respond but this one seems as good as any. With all the accusations flying back and forth I wanted to add my account of what happened.

From my position, there is enough blame to go around for all parties involved in the organization of this event.It is a tremendously difficult task to make it work such that everyone is satisfied, perhaps impossible. I want to back up Wolf's version of what happened as being correct to my knowledge with regard to mistakes in field assignments and loadouts etc. I also think that he may have bitten off a bit more than he could chew by volunteering to be the allied CO. I thought that his conduct was out of line when he was arguing with BUSC in the beginning of the frame and told him on private channel not to yell and to try to be a little more respectful, but everthing he said was true about how things went. I don't know whether he was booted or not or what communications had taken place with Camo and Busc before hand but all the information that I recieved contained errors and made it very tough to know what to do. After he ordered us to land and log out and then dissapeared the members of my squad decided we would stick with it and just do what we had been originally assigned and cap between A15 and A18. When Busc came over to CO the allies I thought he did a good job of trying to ressurect the situation and keep the frame going so we could all try and have some fun. As it turned out, those that stayed seemed to enjoy themselves for the most part and we were pretty successful in the end.

There are nonetheless, serious problems in communication between the organizers that need to be addressed if this thing is going to continue. My own input as CO of the 43rd RAF has been pretty minimal so I am reticent to cast blame on anyone for the situation but we all need to try harder to make this have any semblance of what it is attempting. So far, it has been a shambles in terms of pre-flight planning and I have just tried to follow whatever orders I have received and do my best to fly well and have some fun.I had a blast and think it has great potential to be one of the more challenging ways of enjoying this sim. I have never CO'd a squad before and am not particularly good at organizing this type of thing so I really dont want to be too critical of those who have made an effort to do so. Hangtime was a great natural leader and his loss is sorely felt. I respect Wolf for being willing to try and takeover but I thought he lacked the diplomatic and leadership skills needed to make it work. That said, I also think he did his best and ended up getting a pretty raw deal when it was all said and done.Sorry Wolf, I hope you don't take offense at my remarks as I am just calling it the way I see it.

I do hope that we can all try to communicate better and make this scenario fulfil it's potential to be another great way to enjoy this sim and expand it's scope for all participating.
                Respectfully,
                             kbman

[LLv34_Camouflage]

<S> kbman, good post!

Even after all that has happened and done, I am sure that the Med League is still going strong and will succeed.  Just get in the cockpit and fly!

I hope to see you all in Tuesday's frame!  

Axis CO - Camo

[-lynx-]

 

Even after all that has happened and done, I am sure that the Med League is still going strong and will succeed. Just get in the cockpit and fly!

How true!



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lynx
13 Sqn RAF

[wolf37]

hello all:

you know busc, it is funny how as I read your statement on what took place in frame two how you try to make your self some kind of woopydee do hero.

you state that you setup the allied missions in the planner, but you where not flying with the allies. you had no idea what the allies where doing. so yes, when I told the allies not to use the mission planner that you set up, it was because of all the screw ups in the planner.

you state that I just up and quit the allied, and that you did not boot me, well when I told you that I ordered the allies to land because the mission planner was screwed up, I was suddenly out of the game and back in windows. so maybe you did not eject me from the game, but the timing of my discoed made me think you did. that is when I sent you the e-mail, the e-mail telling you why I was upset with the mission planner. telling you what all the screw ups where.

now, you say I should have edited the planner, well numnuts, I tried to, you told all the allied CO's they could edit there squad missions in the planner, but not one of them could.

you mouth off saying I was chosen to lead the allies against your wish's, that I was chosen by your collaborators. what do you think here, that somebody choose me just to make you look bad or screw things up for you, hell, you don't need any help there. and as for anybody choosing me to lead the allies, I setup when Hangtime had to resign. I also sent out e-mails to all the allied squad CO's letting them know if they wanted somebody else I would step down. at no time did anybody, your self included say they did not want me to lead the allies.

next on the list, what made you think you could set up the mission planner for the allies when you where flying for the axis forces at the time. you would have no idea what the allied plan's would be. so how would you know what planes should have what ordnance or fuel load.

well after what happened and every thing you have said in your post, the way I now see it is very simple.
you wanted to lead the allies and wanted everybody to look at you as some kind of hero.

*hey look at me, I am coming to the rescue of the allied forces*  

first by setting up the mission planner, where as nobody could edit it, tell everybody that I was told I could edit the planner, but refused to do so. tell everybody I just up and quit and left the allied forces to them selves.

what I don't see here, is you asking any of the allied CO's if they had missions before frame two started. If any of the allies new what they where suppose to do, or if any of the allied CO's could edit the mission planner as you said they could.

I only see you putting all the blame on me for all the screw ups in the start of the second frame and you telling everybody what a hero you are for saving the day.

well I am surprised that HTC would have somebody like you as a repasentive of there firm. you have used your position to make your self look like a hero and to insult me at the same time. well now you are the Commander and Chief of the allied forces in the med league. you can play the hero at others expense. I wish the best for the pilots that are flying for the allied side in the med league, as well as the pilots flying for the axis side. good luck to you all.

[StSanta]

busc:

4)....What was happening?
                                The great majority of the HST players stayed and during the frame they admitted having some serious fun  (Image removed from quote.) ... The allies had a great frame
                                and some 190s axis members resigned after being mass-killed (easy to say "i resign" after such a defeat  (Image removed from quote.) )
[/b]

I mentioned after 1st fun frame that "this alt dweebery sucks, not sure I want in".

After second frame, where SG4 encountered wave after wave of hi altitude enemy fighters and still managed to stay together as a coheisve group, i said "well, I'll give it another shot".

The thidtime it happened, I got a wee bit tired of it. What are we simulating, I though - the Med war? Sure wasn't 33k fighter engagements.

So, it has little to do with surviving or not, but much to do with actually having a freaking chance to use one's guns.

just thought I'd point that out.

------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(Image removed from quote.)

[-lynx-]

StSanta - unless you're talking about some other "engagement" with "alt monkies Spits" I have to point out that your account of the events is incorrect. Damn - I'll have to roll the recorder all the time from now on!

You were at the time of the engagement co-alt (~25K I guess) and equal (7:7) in planes strength. 234th RAF (3 Spits) was following busc and 3 other Spits  joined us before you (7 190s) showed up. You "died" there. Please stop "re-writing history".

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lynx
13 Sqn RAF