Author Topic: SCOTUS Double Edged Sword  (Read 158 times)

Offline Samiam

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SCOTUS Double Edged Sword
« on: September 23, 2008, 12:59:15 PM »
Don't let the Heller v. DC decision give you the warm and fuzzies about the current Court.

At the same time they are shoring up the 2nd amendment, they are tearing apart the 4th. Hudson v. Michigan was a start, and in the next session they will consider a similar case - both addressing the exclusionary rule.

In the trade between the 2nd and 4th amendments - which this court seems to have us making - where do you stand?

Personally, I can quietly keep my guns illegally and go on with my life, knowing I have them if I need them. But I'm really scared of the direction of overlooking police and DA screwups in obtaining evidence in the interest of putting people behind bars at all costs.

Where do you all stand: Keep your guns legal and drift closer to a society where you need them, or risk your guns to preserve your right against unlawful search and seizure?

Think about it. With solid protection of your 4th amendment rights, no one will find your illegal guns!

The next president will likely place one or two justices...

Offline AKIron

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Re: SCOTUS Double Edged Sword
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2008, 01:03:27 PM »
Don't let the Heller v. DC decision give you the warm and fuzzies about the current Court.

At the same time they are shoring up the 2nd amendment, they are tearing apart the 4th. Hudson v. Michigan was a start, and in the next session they will consider a similar case - both addressing the exclusionary rule.

In the trade between the 2nd and 4th amendments - which this court seems to have us making - where do you stand?

Personally, I can quietly keep my guns illegally and go on with my life, knowing I have them if I need them. But I'm really scared of the direction of overlooking police and DA screwups in obtaining evidence in the interest of putting people behind bars at all costs.

Where do you all stand: Keep your guns legal and drift closer to a society where you need them, or risk your guns to preserve your right against unlawful search and seizure?

Think about it. With solid protection of your 4th amendment rights, no one will find your illegal guns!

The next president will likely place one or two justices...

Both are important of course and I'm not willing to trade one for the other.

You should realize though that your "illegal" guns will be useless when you can't buy ammunition for them.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Samiam

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Re: SCOTUS Double Edged Sword
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2008, 01:05:19 PM »
Both are important of course and I'm not willing to trade one for the other.

You should realize though that your "illegal" guns will be useless when you can't buy ammunition for them.

Good point.

(Note to self. If Obama is elected, stock up on ammo too.)

Offline Hangtime

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Re: SCOTUS Double Edged Sword
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2008, 01:07:37 PM »
to say nothing of the fact that if found in possession of them in your house, the house is seized, your assets seized and your buns cooked in a federal oven for 20+ years.  
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Charon

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Re: SCOTUS Double Edged Sword
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 01:21:16 PM »
I personally expect a very high scrutiny for no knock searches. They seem to be applied, along with the use of paramilitary police units, in a variety of cases where they would seem inappropriate. Almost as if, once you have a SWAT team, you get the "to a hammer, everything looks like a nail."

Scalia notes that: "Contrary to Hudson’s argument that without suppression there will be no deterrence, many forms of police misconduct are deterred by civil-rights suits, and by the consequences of increasing professionalism of police forces, including a new emphasis on internal police discipline. Pp. 8–13." should adjust the use of no knock searches, but I doubt that. Innocent people (and their family pets, etc.) are dying as a result of SWAT + no knock and I don't think the localized cases seem to impact the issue broadly.

I personally believe this type of policing should only be applied where there is a clear likelihood of violence. If a criminal can flush the evidence in 20 seconds or 30 seconds then maybe there's not enough of a crime to warrant the home invasion, and you bust the guy on the way to the grocery store and then go in the house, etc.

However, since I don't want an activist court ruling on contemporary policy issues (even policy I support) vs. the Constitution I don't have enough legal / historical knowledge to judge the decision either way. The 2nd Amendment appears more clear cut in both language and history in regard to various gun bans. A warrant allows the search. Beyond that, I honestly don't know if the no knock aspect crosses the line or not.

Charon
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 03:23:42 PM by Charon »