Allow vehicles to Successfully Land at Spawn Points

[MachNix]

Allow vehicles to get a Successful Landing if they End Flight within a friendly GV spawn point’s one mile grid square or within a certain distance from the spawn point.

Was reading through the comments of a General Discussion Topic ( http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,252267.210.html ) and took note that people where padding their kill scores by getting proxy kills from GVs at spawn points.  They would simply fly to the enemy spawn point near their field and have their friend, or use a shade account, to repeatedly spawn an enemy GV and then immediately End Flight to create a proxy kill.  My proposal would force them to drive out of the one mile grid square before they could create a proxy.

This change would also make it harder for Spawn Camper to get kills.  The Camper can still get kills if they if they kill the spawning GV with one shoot or if the spawning GV sticks around to get shoot again, but it give the spawning GV a chance to Tower Out without giving up a proxy kill to the Camper.  The Camper will still get credit (hit points, hit %) for any rounds landed.  There will be a slight penalty for the spawning GV in that his Kills/Sortie and Damage/Sortie will decrease because the spawn will count as a sortie with no results.

This same concept would apply to aircraft as it does to Campers.  They would have to wait until the GVs move out of the grid square or away from the spawn point to ensure they get a kill.  As it is now, the aircraft drops a single bomb and gets a proxy kill when the GV Ends Flight in an attempt to avoid the bomb.

This proposal does not apply to the Vehicle Hanger Entry point.  I mention the grid square because it is fairly easy to identify the terrain tile boundaries from GVs and aircraft, and it will give a visual clue when the GV is within range of the spawn point.  But it might be easier to code if the GV “landing zone” was within something like 2640 feet of the spawn point.

Thanks for considering this proposal.

[Denholm]

I see a massive chance for abuse in this request. This will actually entice people to camp their own spawns to prevent being killed.

Just think about it. If someone sees an inbound round that looks as if it will hit them... / .ef 'ENTER'.  Oh, wow, I landed successfully! Hit Spawn location, turn the turret, fire a round, get the kill, land again.

This is a good suggestion, though, considering it intends to prevent others from receiving free kills by spawn camping. It just needs some more thought and would most definitely be difficult to implement with a system to prevent abuse.

[stodd]

No to the idea. Double spawn battles??? If there's a camper then spawn in, turn your turret and shoot him! Or bring bombs back.

[LLogann]

Proxies however do not count towards scoring, nor perks..................... Only thing it gives you is Landing of "fake" kills.

So......................?

What's the issue here?  Bad luck spawning in?

[skribetm]

actually, the biggest problem at vh spawns is the vulch when it's encircled by the enemy. giving the spawning in vehicle temporary invincibility to maneuver and get out of spawn will discourage vh spawn vulching, and encourage a tactical GV battle, not point and shoot vulching.

i'd like the idea here.

[MachNix]

Denholm,
Not sure how you camp you own spawn.  If you stay in your own spawn area, you are not a threat to the surrounding area and there really is no need for the enemy to camp or attack you at the spawn point.  If you move out of the spawn area, you are now a threat and open to attack without having the ability to land successfully.  I don’t see it as abuse if you want to just sit at your spawn point and tower out if you think you will get killed.  As it is now, if that inbound round kills you, you still have the option to re-spawn, turn the turret, fire a round and get a kill.  This proposal MAY prevent the camper from getting that first kill on you and reduce the attraction of camping a spawn point.  People that are really good shots like DR7 who can kill with the first round will still get kills.  They just won’t get kills for everyone who spawns.  Besides reducing the number of proxy kills, it does tilt the advantage away from the campers, which I think is a good thing.

Stodd,
Don’t know what “double spawn battles” means.  If it is where two spawns are within each others spawn area, then if they tower out when you shoot at them, then you can do the same when they shoot at you.  Sound even to me.

LLogann,
I’m fairly sure proxies do count towards score (kills/life, kills/sortie) if your sortie is being scored as GV or Attack.  They will not give you points or perks.  As far as “bad luck spawning in” goes, I don’t like the idea that when I hit the spawn button there will be no safe place to land.  Even if there are no enemy around, I will sometimes get a “you have crashed” message.  I have also had times where I spawned an Osti and got a tread knocked off by an IL2 before it registered on my FE.  I then manage to kill the IL2 but I’m now stuck with a busted tread at the spawn and have to give the 109 driver, who is circling at 4.0k out, the proxy when I End Flight.

skribetm,
This idea is only for those remote spawn points.  The vehicle hanger vulching will still happen with this proposal.  If the enemy is able to just drive up to your vehicle hanger, or if they fought their way to your hanger, they should be able to vulch until you can clear them out.  I don’t think those that let them in should be given an advantage in clearing the vulchers out.

[LLogann]

Nope, unless you ping them.  Then it will count as a "real" kill.  You have to make contact for that to occur, bullets on vehicle/plane.  But....  If you go under the scores page, once you get to a pilot's stat page, at the bottom is Total Stats...... Kills is clickable.  On the kill page, at the bottom, you will see the following:

Total Kills
Total Kills towards rank
Total Kills not counted towards rank

If you only see Total Kills, this means you have no proxies this tour.

As for landing.........  The 5k rule applies, from the mouth of HiTech himself....  You can land ANYWHERE on the map in a gv, but no enemy can be within 5k of your position.   Even at the spawn point, but the thing is, what are the chances no enemy is 5k from you when you spawn in?  Yeah, slim to none if it's a continuing battle.

LLogann,
I’m fairly sure proxies do count towards score (kills/life, kills/sortie) if your sortie is being scored as GV or Attack.  They will not give you points or perks.  As far as “bad luck spawning in” goes, I don’t like the idea that when I hit the spawn button there will be no safe place to land.  Even if there are no enemy around, I will sometimes get a “you have crashed” message.  I have also had times where I spawned an Osti and got a tread knocked off by an IL2 before it registered on my FE.  I then manage to kill the IL2 but I’m now stuck with a busted tread at the spawn and have to give the 109 driver, who is circling at 4.0k out, the proxy when I End Flight.

Now with all that said.... I have been dwelling on this topic for a few......  I think it wouldn't be bad to have code changed a little for gv landing.  Not sure what but something!  You sir, are on to something with this!!!   

[stodd]

  If you stay in your own spawn area, you are not a threat to the surrounding area

No, actually you can range the enemy town/field from the spawn sometimes, I do it offten.

Stodd,
Don’t know what “double spawn battles” means.  If it is where two spawns are within each others spawn area, then if they tower out when you shoot at them, then you can do the same when they shoot at you.  Sound even to me.

Yes thats what im talking about. Sounds EXTREMELY gamey to me.

[MachNix]

LLogann,
Test Case:  In LateWar 106, Banshee7, in a P-40E, has 31 proxy kills on 1HungLo, who was in GVs.  All his 98 kills (at this point in time) are counting towards score – only see Total Kills on the Kill Page. (See Reply #185 in http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,252267.180.html )

The only kills I have seen removed from score are the ones earned as Ship Gunner.  The ones you get for killing a GV while the sortie is scored as Fighter might also show on the Kill page as kills not counted.

Have you ever maneuvered someone into the ground without putting a round in them first and seen the kill message?  I certainly would award you a “real” kill.  You won’t get any perk or kill points though.  As you said, you have to ping them to get the points.
<S>
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Stodd,
I think I remember some spawns next to, or close to, a town on some older maps but I would not say that it is common.  Now spawn areas right next to each other might be more common.  Therefore, the safe landing area should only be large enough to enclose the random spawn locations.  There won’t be any visual clues on where the boundaries are located but the spawn arrow on the clipboard map may be enough of an indicator.  Hopefully, they would not be close enough to shoot at each other while still in the landing area.

The objective here is to increase the time and effort to give and get free proxies.  As it is now, the giver just needs to click the spawn button and then end flight to give a proxy.  It only takes a matter of seconds.  With this change, they would have to startup and move away from the spawn area before ending flight to give the proxy.  The receiver could still kill the giver and get a “kill” instead of the proxy.  But this would require that the receiver expend ordnance (a limited supply and require going back to the rearm pad for more) and have some skills (they could kill themselves with a bomb, or hit the ground or tree).  It is also possible someone else will spawn in and kill them.  Either way, with this modification, it will take more than a few seconds to get a “kill.”

[PFactorDave]

It was my impression that Total Kills not counted toward rank were things such as Ground kills while flying in Fighter Mode.

I could be wrong, but that's what my impression was.

[E25280]

It was my impression that Total Kills not counted toward rank were things such as Ground kills while flying in Fighter Mode.

I could be wrong, but that's what my impression was.

You are exactly correct.

For proof positive that proxies count toward rank/score, check out LTARget in tour 91.  This very topic came up on the boards, so I did an experiment to prove it.  Mind you, this is after the arena splits, but before stat splits, but the scoring system has not changed.

I fly all my sorties as Attack, which is why I was able to do this.  I found a friend in the EW arena who agreed to auger next to my Hurri I.  Because I fly all my sorties as Attack, this is my one and only Fighter kill that tour.

You will see that I have a score/rank that includes the kill, even though my hit percentage is zero (I did not fire a shot).  Therefore it can only be a proxy, and therefore proxies count toward score ratios and rank.

You will note, however, that it gave exactly one kill point.  Obviously it is much better to lay a few rounds on target before they auger if you are really looking for scores.   

[Lusche]

Proxies however do not count towards scoring, nor perks.....................

This is only in part correct. You get no perks for them, but 1 score point (but that is absolutely negigible)
However, proxy kills do fully count for any K/D K/S K/T purposes, within the usual limitations of course (No count of GV kills in fighter mode etc). And thus proxies have full influence on your score and rank.

EDIT: E25280 beat me by 1 second 

[E25280]

EDIT: E25280 beat me by 1 second 

For once.