Hog FM

[F4UDOA]

Toad?

Eeeek!!

You found me.   Just kidding.

I just hate when people interpret cliche as flight characteristic. I just read an artical in "Flight Magazine" about the gound looping of the F4F. I'm sure it did have high torque, compared to the SNJ trainers.

[MiG Eater]

 

Originally posted by F4UDOA:
From the pilots manual for the F4U.

6 degrees nose right.
6 degrees right wing down.

The main reason trim is used in any airplane is to reduce the amount of pressure that a pilot has to apply to flight controls for extended periods.  Even with rudder trim applied, high powered airplanes need a lot of right rudder applied by the pilot at the beginning of the ground roll (assuming a single clockwise turning prop).  Trimming the rudder relieves a portion of the forces required to hold the rudder pedal down (or any control) once the control surface becomes effective in the increasing airflow.  It really helps during an extended climbout (personal experience) since your leg starts shaking from the constant pressure and strain.  

I have stills and videos of carrier takeoffs that include F4U's.  The rudder is deflected fully or almost fully to keep the airplane going straight down the deck.  Thats a bootfull of rudder counteracting the p-factor, slipstream, gyro precession and torque effects.  When I get back home next week, I'll post a scan.

MiG

[ra]

F4U,

Everybody knows about the 6 degrees of rudder trim in the F4U, just go to Zeno's and watch the training video. That's the main reason I think something is off.

AHT mentions that the recommended takeoff rudder trim setting was about right for climbout, in other words, 6 degrees of right trim would be right for climbout.  That isn't cliche and I doubt Dean got it from watching the History Channel.

In AH the opposite happens, first you need a tiny bit of right rudder during takeoff, then you need quite a bit of left trim during climb.

ra

[flakbait]

Try it now with 1.05; nearly no torque at all! I thought I was flying a Yak for a minute when I got an F4U-D up. Thing needed quite a bit of left rudder. Funny part is I got a Typhoon off the ground WITHOUT using ANY rudder! Gotta get fixed, this is nuts.

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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond
 

[Jigster]

 

Originally posted by flakbait:
Try it now with 1.05; nearly no torque at all! I thought I was flying a Yak for a minute when I got an F4U-D up. Thing needed quite a bit of left rudder. Funny part is I got a Typhoon off the ground WITHOUT using ANY rudder! Gotta get fixed, this is nuts.

I noticed the same thing...had to stomp the F6 to keep it centered (braked for full RPM/MP) on release...F4U had no reaction at all with neutral trim! (okay a little exagerated, it did ever so gently dip the left wing upon leaving the carrier deck.

[Sunchaser]

First, I fly fighters almost never.

Second, in 1.3 I could not and in 1.4 I could barely get a Corsair into the air with 1 DropTank from an airfield and had not yet landed it properly.

Third, last night I took off from a carrier in the main in both the Corsair and the Hellcat and landed both on the carrier.

Fourth, those are my first 2 carrier landings in any sim ever and the carrier was turning when I landed the Hellcat.

Fifth. fascinated by this thread, I grabbed a Corsair offline, loaded it with 100 fuel, rockets and 2 @1K bombs and guess what?
Yup, no torque and it lifted in about carrier length.

On liftoff the left wing dipped a bit.
I made 1 wide circle and landed with the full load still attached.

I was dissappointed to say the least, I really expected many failed attempts at carrier landings before I made it onto the deck.

We know 2 things:
 1.HTC had to turn the difficulty down to keep the new players interested and 2. this post is way too long.

I vote HTC install FULL HARD and EASY and a TOGGLE switch.

 I do not care how the guy I am fighting got his airplane into the air, as long as I got mine up the hard way.




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When did they put this thing in here and WTF is it for?

[F4UDOA]

First on carrier takeoff's, I couldn't get an F4U off the deck with anything more than 50% fuel. TBM won't get off with almost any fuel and no ordinance and the Hellcat is a little better for me. I haven't tried online yet but I don't know if it would be better.

Second from AHT in the section on trimming.

quote

"The Corsair was easy to trim out for climb. Trim changes from landing gear and flap reaction were minimal, and those for speed and power changes were quite handleable. In a cruise condition the airplane could be trimmed for hands and feet off flying with little trouble."

I am not against a torque reaction in AH. I am against an unrealistic torque roll reaction at moderate speeds IE. 120 to 150MPH. A fully loaded F4U stalls at 100MPH no flap. A moderate F4U (in RL) stalls at about 70mph full flap. So seeing a torque roll in a light bird at 85mph would be wrong. Were as seeing it on a heavier bird at 100mph would accurate. As long as the reaction matches the weighted condition of the airplane, it should be reasonable and not so severe as to be difficult.

Also it is apparent that these reactions are reduced considerable if not eliminated by proper trim(combat trim in AH) and proper handling.

If this change was made it would also have to be across the board. Consider the FW190 which has 1750HP and 197sq ft of wing area.
It has 78% of the horsepower but only 63% of the wing area to counter the torque reaction as compared to the F4U. The Yak and Me-109G10 would be even worse in this regard. This would be a major change to the AH FM and I'm not sure for the better.

[flakbait]

Found out that if you re-calibrate your stick torque effects come back. Might wanna check your stick in the little preview window under Joystick. Mine was having rudder problems, so I re-calibrated it. All of a sudden the Tiffe got torque back! Darn thing nearly gave me whiplash!


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Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School
"For yay did the sky darken, and split open and spew forth fire, and
through the smoke rode the Four Wurgers of the Apocalypse.
And on their canopies was tattooed the number of the Beast, and the
number was 190." Jedi, Verse Five, Capter Two, The Book of Dweeb
 

[ygsmilo]

I got new rudder peds for xmas, CH Pros USB.
Before I had a twist stick.  Once I got the peds calibrated and working I noticed that I had to input MUCH more rudder control on takeoff for the Tyffie and Hog than I ever noticed with the twiststick.  Just a thought.

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Milo
3./JG2
"Swager's Angels"