KI84-variants

[Wmaker]

Ah.

That leads to the next question, what were the boost settings it ran at for the US tests?

The source I mentioned says that the americans measured take-off power as 1970hp at 3000rpm and that with "WEP" the engine put out 2050hp at 762m (2500ft). Japanese listed Ha-45-21's take-off power to be 1990hp at 3000rpm/500mmHg (with ADI, of course).

Americans didn't really need the ADI considering they had high octane fuel in use and AFAIK didn't therefore use it. So I'm assuming this
"american" "WEP" setting is just an overboost powersetting (unfortunately no MAP is given) made possible by the higher octane fuel and the same thing for the take-off setting naturally.

The 388mph/624km/h figure comes from the initial test flights of the pre-production aircraft equipped with 1800hp Ha-45-11 engines. Only small number of actual production aircraft were equipped with them as the next engine (Ha-45-12) quickly came available running at 1825hp for take-off.

Later series aircraft were fitted with the Ha-45-21. So, with 87 octane Japanese avgas and ADI a production Ha-45-21 powered KI-84 could have approached the figures achieved in US testing as it falls only 60hp short of the power setting used in the american testing but in practise this probably rarely was the case because of the technical problems like the fuel pressure fluctuation.

EDIT/Just to avoid confusion I was here talking about the KI-84-Ia (actually, KI-84a is the correct Japanese designation))/EDIT

[Karnak]

I would dearly like to know which engine the Ki-84 in AH has.

[Wmaker]

Well I think the performance pretty clearly suggests that it's either Ha-45-11 or Ha-45-12.

KI-84b would, with it's 2000hp Ha-45-25 really approach the american testing figures. By the Ha-45-23, the fuel pressure problems had been solved. Of course the plane remained unreliable as a whole obviously, but that shouldn't be a problem in AH.

[Krusty]

As for the AH modeling, I don't recall the forum member's name, but he's Japanese and researched extensively many original documents in his native language and provided them to HTC, including translations.

[Ruah]

Love to know his/her e-mail address since I've got a lot of the wartime documents from the central archives coming to me now (it took some convincing to get them). . .  all in all there is a long list of late war IJA/N planes I would like to see introduced. . .but the 84 is a good place to start.  Its more out of interest then anything else. . .so whether it changes the plane in the game is secondary to getting all the documents and copying them.

[moot]

Love to know his/her e-mail address since I've got a lot of the wartime documents from the central archives coming to me now (it took some convincing to get them). . .  all in all there is a long list of late war IJA/N planes I would like to see introduced. . .but the 84 is a good place to start.  Its more out of interest then anything else. . .so whether it changes the plane in the game is secondary to getting all the documents and copying them.

It might have been Busa.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,134252.msg1452047.html#msg1452047

[Wmaker]

So according to busa/pyro the production -21s were derated from their original specs (1990hp) to the power levels of the -11 and -12 which is understandable considering the numerous problems with the engines. I wonder if -23 and -25 were derated to -11/-12 -levels aswell. The source I mentioned states that the actual production number for the KI-84b is not known but it is very probable it is not higher than 10% of all KI-84s built. Only known photographs are taken from examples that served in the 104th Sentai.

[zuii]

gawd, you guys are so smart and i just want more cannons!


zuii

[slimmer]

  +1

[busa]

Hello, this is busa01.

About Ki84-1b
The number of production of Ki84-1b is misunderstood.
Those numbers of production were about 100 pcs slightly.
They were produced only at the Nakajima aviation Ota factory.
The manufacture number is after the Ota factory of No.3000.
About 2700pcs Ki84 was produced at the Ota factory.
That is, manufacture numbers are not consecutive numbers.
Ki84-1b carried out parallel production with Ki84-1a after the spring of 1945.
Therefore, there is few production.
And about 730pcs Ki84 was produced at the Utsunomiya factory.

And Ki84-1c was not mass-produced.

I want Ki84-1b to appear in AH.
But at present, I do not demand it of Pyro.
Because, the Japanese airplanes in AH has many correction problems.
It is one of the reasons many Japanese players left AH.
I want them to be solved.

I do not want it to develop into political diplomacy to add Ki84-1b.
But I think that it is very easy to add it as Perk plane.

Thank you for reading my poor English.

[busa]

Hello, Ruah and all.
This is busa01.

About the performance of Ki84

I do not want Japanese airplanes to be set to over model.
And I do not want them to be set to under model, either.
The data by which propaganda is contained are treated carefully.
However, since Japan of those days is secretiveness, there are few such data.

The performance data of Ki84 mainly used official data, the pilot handbook, and the maintenance manual.
The pilot handbook was not exhibited by books and Web.
I prepared specially, in order to present HTC.
Official data were got from the following four places.
Japan Center for Asian Historical Records.
National Archives of Japan.
National Institute for Defense Studies (Ministry of Defense).
Yasukuni shrine.
In addition, 80 general selling books were made reference.
Incidentally "ISBN 4-05-603547-1" is a magazine about Ki84 which I trust most now. (Japanese magazine) .
The author is my acquaintance.
And he is the friend of "Pkun (AH player)."

The performance of Ki84 in AH is simulating the situation in 1944 - 1945.
The octane numbers of the used gasoline are 91, 92, and 95.
The installed engine is derated engine of Ha-45-21 (NK9-H).
In IJNAF, it was called NK9-H-B. (NK9-H B spec) It was the completely same spec. as Ha-45-12.
Ki84 and N1K2-J installed the same engine.
The same was said of the operation restrictions. (MP+250mm/hg RPM2900) However, IJNAF set up WEP (Over boost operation).
I want detailed contents to read the thread which Moot quoted.

Thank you for reading my poor English.

[busa]

Hello, Ruah and all.
This is busa01.

By the way, "C6N carrier recon plane" has two performance tables.
They are two kinds of performances in which the state where NK9-H was installed, and NK9-H-B was installed.
This data shows the very interesting result.
The maximum speed of Ki84 is 631 km/h / 6150m (624 km/h / 5000m).
The maximum speed of N1K2-J is 583 km/h / 3000m, 611 km/h / 6000m. (The only official data indicated by the pilot handbook) .
The maximum speed of C6N (MP+250) is 580 km/h / 3000m, 609 km/h / 6100m.
The prediction performance in MP+350 of Ki84 is 660 km/h / 6000m.
Un-official data 660 km/h of Ki84-1b / 6000m.
The maximum speed of C6N (MP+350) is 635-654 km/h / 6000m.
The prediction performance in (MP+350) of N1K2-J is 644-653 km/h / 6000m.
These results do not cause collision.
The aero dynamics software which I am using did not cause collision.
Historical investigation about the performance of Ki84 in AH was performed carefully.
It will not be necessary to change until the data of special new discovery come out.

The special performance of Ki84 in IJAAF Aero Examination Department will be operated by MP+350.
Incidentally there was gasoline of the octane number 100 also in a Japanese mainland.
Probably, this performance of Ki84 was also demonstrated with the gasoline of the octane number 100.
In N1K2-J, the gasoline of the octane number 100 was used at the time of Kikai island air superiority mission.
The pilot who carried out the missions said that the performance of N1K improved wonderfully.
And it said further.
Probably, many of my war comrades survived, if it could always use this gasoline.
I told this fact to HTC.
But I said that I did not need to take such a special situation into consideration.

By the way, in Japan's examination, the airplane imported from Germany and the United States did not demonstrate catalog spec in many cases.
Since fuel and oil were imports, they are not those causes.
In many cases, the cause was the cause of weight regulation.
Moreover, when the airplane of IJNAF was examined by IJAAF, the performance improved.
Those causes were also the causes of weight regulation.

IJNAF was the Strategic Air Command. (imagined enemy is the United States of America) .
IJAAF was Tactical Air Command . (imagined enemy is the Soviet Union) .
IJNAF assumed Full road, when engaged.
When IJAAF was engaged, fuel loading assumed about 6 - 70 percent.
for example, Ki 61-1a and b performed performance measurement at about 60 percent of fuel loading
This regulation in IJAAF was changeover by 1943.
Ki84 plan started at these days.
Although Ki84 was nomal road 3600kg, but it performed performance measurement by full road 3750kg.


By the way, Ruah.
If you can speak Japanese, I will want to talk with you.
And if you are staying in Japan even now, each other data will be exchangeable.

Thank you for reading my poor English.