<S> Allied Squads

[49Jester]

<S> my apologies to the 327th and the 325th, you guys got hit pretty good, and as your escorts, i must convey our apologies for your losses.

In effort to save fuel in the spit 14's we cut some corners and our timing was off on the convergence with you at the target. We got there first and got hit by about 20 190's. we only had minutes of fuel over the target, so those that didnt die retreated in an effort to refuel.

Next time we will make a concerted effort not to let that happen again.

And as for my uninformed opinion on everyone elses performance, 114 objects destroyed, and 99 kills, WTG, some of us got thru and did their duty . Nicely done..........

[oakranger]

First time as CiC?  If so, you did a good job and hopefully learn a few things.  NOTE: Temps is not a go AC as escort of bombers above 25k.  We had a hell of a time trying to get the 109 and 190s. 

[Nemisis]

I'm partially at fault here too. Dad just got back from a trip, and I chose to spend some time with him after a few weeks away rather than attend FSO. I'd make the same choice next time, but I must take some of the blame regardless of that.

[Viper61]

Jester:

  No need to apologize, we all did our best.  And I completely understand your issues and limitations given the plane sets and general scenario set up.  Defending 28 was Rolling Thunder and it is a large squad with some good pilots and its very difficult to take on a larger squad in good AC with good pilots.  No worries.

  The routes were good to the target and the JABO squads got to within 5 miles of the target before we ran into them.  Very hard to dive bomb from 31K in a 38 without compressing or ripping it apart all the while a horde of 190's are chasing you down.  Most of the guys got their bombs off but under pressure from the defenders the drop's were hasty and not well aimed, you know the deal.  And really as you guys had the Spits you couldn't take the route we did.  The 49th is a good squad and you guys have saved my bacon more than once before <S>

  JABO's in this set up are at a disadvantage without a "sizeable" escorting element.  Stoney has a good post running on this issue.  Sizeable being something as large as the defenders.  And it has to arrive 10 to 15 minutes early in order to disrupt or distroy the defending units.  Then it has to stay at the target area and CAP it until all bombs are away.  Given the distance and required plane types it is hard to make that happen and also the point values for the targets being so low and so few that sending in bombers makes no since either.

  You can't risk the high value bombers against low point value targets like 50 points for a Airfield.  The Spits cant carry the bomb load to distroy anything, so they have to fly escort.  But the distances only allow them to stay over a enemy airfield for 5 minutes.  The "real" fighters (51's / 38's / 47's) then have to be used for JABO.  Which "really" means no escorts at the target.  So it turns into a killing spree for the AXIS.  I mean really - Would 3 fighter squadrons ever be sent in to distroy 2 large hangers on a enemy airfield?  The real targets are the aircraft not the hangers.....

  I have no doubt that the ALLIES will lose this scenario.  At A28 the ALLIES probably risked 200 points to get a possible 50 points in targets "max".  It appears from the logs that we lost nearly every AC and didn't distroy either hanger.  So a NET gain of 200 points for the AXIS there, give or take.

  Jester we had a good time and the formation flying and communication with the 327th and 49th up to the target was fun.  I know our commo man was talking to you as well for intel passing and coordination which worked very well.  And the 327th was flying with us.  All in all a good a mission as could be done given the situation and set up.  <S> 49th.  <S> 327th.

Viper 61
Ops Officer
325th VFG

[Chapel]

I agree 100% with Viper. The Rolling Thunder had a screen set up over A28 with 17 pilots waiting at altitude for high escorts, and to be honest, I was surprised when I saw P-38's and Spit 14's show up to the party. I was totally expecting low A-20's or Mossies, and high P-47's and P-51D's. The Spits and P-38's just didn't have the fuel for that kind of distance and job. Timing was a big thing too....
As Viper mentioned, for JABO's to work effectively, you have to clear out the CAP and then call in the dive bombers. However, the Spits didn't have any kind of a chance on dwindling fumes to do that. That meant that all 3 waves came in piece meal and got torn up. First the spits, then the P-38's, then the Mossies.

It was a good fight that pushed us really hard, we had aircraft coming in from lots of different directions. Unfortunately they were timed a little off and we had a chance to regroup before the next wave.
In this case, with the tools you put onto this target, it might have been a better deal to send everything in all at once to disorientate and spread our situational awareness out. We wouldn't have been able to hit EVERYTHING and something would have gotten through. Also as Viper mentioned, sending in a small squad of 4-6 B-17's high about 5 mins or so after the spits and P-38's engaged, would have left us unable to deal with high bombers.

It was a great effort at A28 and you guys put up a hell of a fight given the situation and the planes at your disposal!
<SALUTE>

[49Jester]

Thanks guys.. good luck next time around, and thanks for the kind words, its an honor to fly with you guys in these historical recreations.


 

[Jonah]

  I have no doubt that the ALLIES will lose this scenario.  

wow are you kidding me? as rigged as it already is people still have doubts about allies winning. how many more air spawns and No Fly Zones do you need? lol

[Jaxxon]

IMO, 2 things should go; Air starts for allied bombers and fighters that are too close to the French coast , they should be back over England or closer to where the RPs would have been historically. Give the Bombers a more realistic Time to Target, 60 minutes is a bit tight for that role. I think that hitting the target before a specified time works but it needs to be variable and reflect the scenario.
Force the defenders to man their radar to vector their fighters to the incoming threat instead of restricting their Area of Operation. If the defenders know the locations of the enemy air start it nullifies any tactical advantage the attacker has.