Author Topic: Overclocking confusion  (Read 657 times)

Offline Urchin

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Overclocking confusion
« on: December 02, 2010, 09:16:50 PM »
Well, I got my new computer.  I paid extra to have it overclocked "20%" whatever that means.  I kind of assumed it meant my i7-950 would be running at ~3.6 Ghz instead of 3.06, but when I run dxdiag it shows up as 3.07 Ghz. 

I downloaded a program called CPU-Z and IT shows the clock speed as being around 1600 Mhz? 

I have noticed that it'll read higher if I go back to the window after doing something else, whats going on with it?

Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2010, 09:18:23 PM »
Speedstepping is probably turned on in BIOS.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2010, 09:59:54 PM »
CPU-Z isnt always reliable. You might go to guru3D and download the OCCT utility. It will tell you what you have and test for stability however I dont recommend running the PSU test unless you have a very very good power supply.
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Offline FLS

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2010, 10:13:47 PM »
The overclocking probably refers to your RAM. 1600 is  higher than the standard memory specs of 1333 or 1066. The higher price may have been for faster memory. Your CPU should go to 3.33 under load without overclocking. You can probably set the BIOS to run the CPU at 3.6 if you have sufficient cooling but I wouldn't do that with the stock heatsink.  I expect it will run fast enough as it is.

Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2010, 11:19:55 PM »
Sounds to me like Speedstep is turned on.  It will downclock the CPU when there's no significant load on it.  I leave speedstep on on my OC'd E6700 (2.66 Ghz OC'd to 3.2 Ghz).  When there's a load it runs at 3.2 Ghz.  When there's not it downclocks to 2.4 Ghz.  To do so it simply resets the internal multiplyer from 8x to 6x.
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 12:06:46 AM »
play the game while having cpuz open then press the windows key or minimize ah then take a quick look at what cpuz says.

as I understand most new cpus will downclock themselves to save power when they dont have a high load to handle, but will increase the clock as more power is needed up to the max that is capable.  this option can be disabled in bios, but you will have to check your mobo to find out where.

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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 12:20:30 AM »
When websites say a 20% over clock most think as you, 3.0xGHz + 20% = 3.6GHz.  They are misleading the buyer, thinking they are getting more bang for the buc.  What they mean is that they will take the native 133 and add 20% to that.  I will show you some examples of overclocks.

There are many settings to be dealt with when overclocking a system and variables that a bulk builders can not do within cost limits.  One is environment, it does not make good business sense to call each customer that requests overclocking and get the environment info.  Higher overclocks take hours to dial in to be stable.  The boards running speed, the memory running speed, CPU speed, voltages to all of these in addition to the QPI speed all are factors when overclocking.  Then you have the multipliers for the each which in turn all finally relate to each of the others components speed.

Here is an example of stock settings at a CPU multiplier of 21x.  Notice the CPU frequency "overclock" of -0.2%, this is normal.  Also take note of the Bus Frequency.  My memory multiplier here is 10x or 10 x 133 = 1333


Now here is the Same settings with a multiplier of 22x.  No change in the Bus Frequency but the multiplier has been moved to 22x now having a 4.5% over clock.  Still the same memory multiplier 10x.


Lets overclock, this CPU can hit 4.0GHz Stable without issue on air (with the right environment), but the main thing is to show how the multipliers work.

Here is a so called 50% overclock having the CPU running at 3.8GHz with a bus frequency of 200.  But I had to change my CPU multiplier from 22x to 19x (200 x 19 = 3.8) I also changed the multiplier on the memory from 10x to 8x, 2x lower but it boosted my memory from 1333Mhz to 1600Mhz


Things get interesting now and here is where the site and their 20% overclock trick comes into play.
Here is again a 50% overclock but my CPU is now at 4.0GHz still with a bus frequency of 200, I changed the multiplier to 20, but its still only a 50% overclock, memory multiplier is still the same, running at 1600Mhz.


Here I wanted more memory speed and less CPU speed so the Bus Frequency is changed to 180, therefore running the CPU at 3.6GHz but I changed the memory multiplier to 10 giving me 1800MHz off of stock 1333 memory.  Memory manufactures will let you OC the stick as high as you can get as long as you do not go over the voltage requirements from them.


Conclusion:  They most likely did OC you system but only the board and took the mulitplier down due to time constraints when OCing a system.  I am willing to bet your system is running at 160 but the multiplier for both your CPU and memory are turned down.  I believe the multiplier for the 950 is 22x max.

My $0.02 worth

TD





« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 12:23:27 AM by TilDeath »

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2010, 12:52:50 AM »
Urchin I could sit here and write about 200000 words about how to overclock the i7 950 for ultimate stability but it would mostly go to waste. In other words if you dont understand it the best place to find out how your system is setup is the person that built it. You could spend weeks learning about how to go about it and the few paragraphs you will get in this forum will most likely lead to an unstable system (BSODs and CTDs). In a simple overclock like you tried to get it is almost impossible to destroy your system but you should know details before changing things so you dont do anything in complete ignorance. Im not saying anyone is stupid or wrong but that without understanding it is only possible to get wrong results.TilDeath at least has the experience and preparation to meet with success and therefore can spot the weakness in systems settings.

And... I would not suggest speedstep at all. But then again I suggest you make only the changes required to get your system stable. An i7 950 is an awesome CPU and you should not need to overclock it to get the most out of AH. I leave my BIOS settings for 100% speed out of the fans and use a FrontX panel to set fan speeds. If you are getting smooth video already the few frames extra that you get out of any game or benchmark isnt worth the headache and aggravation of an unstable system.

If you visit an overclocker and check out his Windows stability report and see crashes (low scores) he is the wrong guy to get information from. Just saying.
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Offline TilDeath

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2010, 03:22:35 AM »
Urchin I could sit here and write about 200000 words about how to overclock the i7 950 for ultimate stability but it would mostly go to waste. In other words if you dont understand it the best place to find out how your system is setup is the person that built it. You could spend weeks learning about how to go about it and the few paragraphs you will get in this forum will most likely lead to an unstable system (BSODs and CTDs). In a simple overclock like you tried to get it is almost impossible to destroy your system but you should know details before changing things so you dont do anything in complete ignorance. Im not saying anyone is stupid or wrong but that without understanding it is only possible to get wrong results.TilDeath at least has the experience and preparation to meet with success and therefore can spot the weakness in systems settings.

And... I would not suggest speedstep at all. But then again I suggest you make only the changes required to get your system stable. An i7 950 is an awesome CPU and you should not need to overclock it to get the most out of AH. I leave my BIOS settings for 100% speed out of the fans and use a FrontX panel to set fan speeds. If you are getting smooth video already the few frames extra that you get out of any game or benchmark isnt worth the headache and aggravation of an unstable system.

If you visit an overclocker and check out his Windows stability report and see crashes (low scores) he is the wrong guy to get information from. Just saying.
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Offline zeromajin

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2010, 05:24:28 AM »
Not sure what Mobo you are running, but consider any "preset overclock" options it my have, such as CPU-Level up (Asus) and others. Most all of the LG1366 socket boards I can think of have this feature. Just be sure to stress test it with Prime95/Linx [insert stress test software of your choice] as I have witnessed these presets to be unstable on occasion. Which is not surprising, since no two CPUs are the same and react differently to different settings, and many times all these presets do is increase bclk frequency and little else.

The best way to learn to overclock an i7, IMHO, is to get your hands on an older, used, cheap i7920 (really the same thing as 950 with less multipliers) PC, spend a couple days (or weeks) doing some online research, and go to town on it. The cost may not be worth the experience/knowledge to you, at best having an extra PC, and at worst smoking your test subject. At the very least you don't wanna "experiment" with your primary rig.  Oh BTW, optimally try and find a PC running the same mobo, but at the very least the same manufacturer, so that your experience with the primary rig's BIOS will be as similar as possible.

But seriously, depending on the other specs on your build, particularly CPU cooling, you may wanna just opt to let it be. It's possible depending on your usage you may not even have a perceivable performance gain @ 3.6 GHz   
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 05:35:11 AM by zeromajin »
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Offline Urchin

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2010, 06:42:09 AM »
Thanks for the responses. When I went into the bios a warning came up saying there had been boot failures and that the real settings might not match what was displayed or something along those lines.  I'm not going to mess with it.. it has booted up fine every time I restarted it so far.

Offline TilDeath

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2010, 09:12:57 AM »
Thanks for the responses. When I went into the bios a warning came up saying there had been boot failures and that the real settings might not match what was displayed or something along those lines.  I'm not going to mess with it.. it has booted up fine every time I restarted it so far.
Sounds to me like their OC settings are not working.  The BIOS loaded the defaults.  What MB did they put into the system?  If it is a Gigabyte when your in the BIOS you can look at what they saved in most cases.  When your in the BIOS do you have the F11 and F12 features available at the bottom?  If so the F12 will show you any saved BIOS you can choose one or hit the "ESC" key ( max of 8 settings).  If its an EVGA board the saved settings are on the TOP RIGHT selection at the bottom of the screen.  Hope this helps.

TD

Offline FLS

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Re: Overclocking confusion
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 10:22:55 AM »
Urchin you can get that message even if your settings are OK. The next time you go to BIOS and see it just select save current configuration and reboot. That will give you the settings your PC came with. If you continue to get that message contact the people you bought your PC from.