Author Topic: Connectivity and zee tater  (Read 2149 times)

Offline bustr

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2010, 06:02:10 PM »
About 9 months ago ATT's last 3 hops before the game server's hosting site started becoming congested like clockwork everyday during peak times untill about 1-2am CST. When I checked a USA Internet trunk map, ATT-DSL(SBC) has a single route from california to texas. Gotta wonder if the prono streaming vids are located on servers to the east of SanFran......I understand streaming media is via UDP.

I still want to know, if all the go boom is on my side first, then you get a love note from my side telling your side you went boom. What happens when my side shows me you go boom but the love note gets dropped in transit between california and russia to tell your plane to blow up? I've seen this enough times with the tater. A flash and the plane flys off. Ardy lives here in Oakland also and has described the same phenominon during his more colorfull rants.

So what happens????? Or do I just get to allow this learned cast of bunny slipper enthusiists to escoriate my verasity as is par for the last 8 years of observing these forums?

By the way, last night Squats connection was back to richeous and was not interested in the test. All of his taters were connecting on demand. Oh Well.............. :rolleyes:

Does anyone have a link to a really GOOD realtime USA Internet traffic congestion map?

Might not be a bad thing also for a link to be posted in a sticky so players can get a general overview of traffic quality around the country. If I'm not confused on how it was described to me, when UDP traffic goes up and requires more bandwidth it starts getting dumped in favor of TCP traffic by how the general Internet is configured to handel the protocals. As peak usage and congestion approaches then we should begin seeing lots of rubber taters and other 30mm and larger one shot period projectiles.
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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Ardy123

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2010, 06:18:32 PM »
Is there a way to force the game to use a TCP connection without blocking all UDP traffic on my router?

This would be a good test.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2010, 06:58:58 PM »
Use some Grains of Salt in digesting these articles. The sky will not fall but, they have some general information about UDP growth and the internet related generaly to our game. During the Great Depression going to the Motion Pictures, .05-.50 cent tickets was cheap escapism entertainment. Today during our down economy the internet is the cheap escapism entertainment.


http://www.christopher-parsons.com/blog/technology/p2p/internet-drowning-in-the-bits-of-udp/

Richard Morris, over at the Register, took uTorrent’s shift to the UDP protocol as an opportunity to cry that the sky was falling. Drawing a parallel between the use of UDP and “Congestion Collapse” or “Internet meltdown”, he argues that shifting to UDP, and away from TCP/IP’s native congestion management features, demands that ISPs be permitted to take a more active role in managing their networks.

http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/12/utorrents-switch-to-udp-and-why-the-sky-isnt-falling.ars

The TCP protocol that nearly all applications use—especially the ones sending a lot of data—has a traffic management system built in that is known as congestion control. The congestion control algorithms make TCP slow down when packets get lost, eventually reaching an equilibrium between packet loss and sending rate. Other TCP sessions flowing through the same part of the network see the same packet loss rate, so all these TCPs converge on a similar sending rate, making them share the limited bandwidth equally. UDP, on the other hand, doesn't have any congestion control built in. It's basically an extremely lightweight wrapper around the IP protocol that allows applications to send packets any way they feel like, without providing any feedback about congestion in the network.

So a naive UDP application will just send packets at the highest rate the network interface can support—or maybe even higher—almost certainly overloading some part of the network. However, this is not what µTorrent does. According to the forum post announcing the alpha, "This UDP-based reliable transport is designed to minimize latency, but still maximize bandwidth when the latency is not excessive." So uTP avoids overloading the uplink of the user running the application—removing the need for BitTorrenters to impose limits on the BitTorrent upload and download speeds to avoid slowing down other applications.

However, the core of the internet works at very high speeds, so that even if part of an ISP's infrastructure is severely overloaded, this doesn't introduce much delay or latency—just packet loss. So if uTP only looks at latency in order to determine how fast it can communicate, massive use of uTP could still cause problems in ISP networks and/or push out other (TCP) traffic. Unfortunately, the µTorrent site doesn't provide any information one way or the other.

bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline dirtdart

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2010, 12:58:55 PM »
For me from my house to St Louis I am at four to five mbs. Past that on all speed tests it drops to one to two.  What happens when that five mps data stream plows into the one to two. 

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Offline bustr

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2010, 02:09:34 AM »
Speed is not as important as what is happening at each hop or router or bridge along the way. If the issue with UDP vs TCP is reached at more than one of them you will see it in the quality of your connection as regards to your quality of sending successful "you go boom" messages to your opponent. Even a single router impacted severly or just badly maintained can make you gnash your teeth while missing Easy shots.

Think of all the guys who swear they hit a panzer with 5-10 rounds and were killed by that panzer with a single shot in return. Statisicly that many subscirpers are not bald faced liaers. All of their descriptions of the events have reasonable grains of truth to them. But, by no means are they describing bugs in the game.

UDP is not the protocol the internet was designed for. If the game was played via TCP our FPS would often be like a slide show. Have you ever watched a long streaming video movie on your PC and off and on got stuttering and halts in the video and sound. Streaming video uses UDP. UDP operates in a stream and has no bandwidth limiter. When it's insatiable apatite for bandwidth reaches the point it limits TCP, routers are currently setup to drop your UDP packets in favor of TCP which is self regulating in its apitite. Kinda like how Old Geezers will play nice together but punk kids will trash everything untill they destroy the place or a cop shows up and regulates em.

HTC's game is 98% perfict most of the time. Skuzzy cannot control the internet and its antipathy towards UDP any of the time.

For me depending on the time of day or other factors, there is a hop in SanFran that bridges to Texas which drops UDP big time. Too much unemployed gay prono video traffic I guess. Then the last three hops in Texas before the game server have issues during peak hours. This has been going on its worst for about 9 months now.

What does this mean?

Statisticly if your connection route is rotten as heck towards UDP, you can be a better pilot and shooter than Grizz by a factor of 100 and it will never show. It will look to everyone else like you can fly but just can't shoot. Thats the totality of why I don't DA. It is not worth the effort while being beaten first by the "Ghost in the Shell", then finished off as a gimmie.

Simple question in the face of what anyone can research about how the internet handles TCP versus UDP traffic and their own connection. How many of the games players would bet $500 of their own money in one vs. one duels, one a day for a month in the DA? At least at a poker table you can see the other guy, his eyes and where his hands are.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline dirtdart

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2010, 11:28:44 AM »

HTC's game is 98% perfict most of the time. Skuzzy cannot control the internet and its antipathy towards UDP any of the time.


You said it all right there Bustr.  I did not really think it was a bug issue, just a connectivity issue.  I can totally see rounds exploding where they look like they are exploding on my screen, are not exploding behind or ahead of the other plane. 

Great links BTW, thanks. 
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Offline dirtdart

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Re: Connectivity and zee tater
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2010, 12:59:08 PM »
More frustration  :furious



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If you are not GFC...you are wee!
Put on your boots boots boots...and parachutes..chutes...chutes.. .
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