bf 109-g6/u4?

[STEELE]

What do you have against the g10?
I mean they most likely have it on a file somewhere to be added with 2 clicks of a mouse, it would give newer Luft enthusiasts a plane that can compete with the allied latewar uberrides that has a much easier gun to use than the tater (extremely hard for new guys to hit with)

[Debrody]

Hijack alert
What was the difference between the g-10 and the k-4?  I know the g-10s were mostly converted from g-6s equipped with the k-4s stuff, but i dont know the performance/tech spec. differences between the two.
Shemp, those g-10s were mostly equipped with the tater gun, just like the g-14s. That was the standardized hub cannon for the newly produced 109s from mid-'44. Some operating g-6s still had the 151/20 in '45 Spring tho.

[fudgums]

"Gerd" Barkhorn said he loved the G6 more than any other model of 109...

[The Fugitive]

Hijack alert
What was the difference between the g-10 and the k-4?  I know the g-10s were mostly converted from g-6s equipped with the k-4s stuff, but i dont know the performance/tech spec. differences between the two.
Shemp, those g-10s were mostly equipped with the tater gun, just like the g-14s. That was the standardized hub cannon for the newly produced 109s from mid-'44. Some operating g-6s still had the 151/20 in '45 Spring tho.

If I remember correctly when we had the G10 it was a K4 with a 20mm gun instead of the 30mm. So you got all the speed, with a gun that was easier to hit with.

[MiloMorai]

Hijack alert
What was the difference between the g-10 and the k-4?  I know the g-10s were mostly converted from g-6s equipped with the k-4s stuff, but i dont know the performance/tech spec. differences between the two.
Shemp, those g-10s were mostly equipped with the tater gun, just like the g-14s. That was the standardized hub cannon for the newly produced 109s from mid-'44. Some operating g-6s still had the 151/20 in '45 Spring tho.

Prien says about 2600 G-10 a/c were built. Of this number 2048, were neubau a/c.

[Karnak]

What do you have against the g10?
I mean they most likely have it on a file somewhere to be added with 2 clicks of a mouse, it would give newer Luft enthusiasts a plane that can compete with the allied latewar uberrides that has a much easier gun to use than the tater (extremely hard for new guys to hit with)

No, they don't have it on file because we never had a Bf109G-10.  We had a Bf109K-4 that was labeled as a Bf109G-10 so that they could give it the 20mm hub option.

Bf109G-10s did not do 452mph.  They did something more like 420-430mph.

As to why we don't need it, well, it fills no gap as it entered service after the Bf109K-4.  The gap we want filled in the Bf109 lineup is the lack of any Bf109 capable of performing decently much above 20,000ft at an earlier point in the war.

[gyrene81]

got my hands on some relic 109 technical documents and pilot manuals in german...translated some using google translate...there is some highly interesting technical data o the 109g6-u4 and the 109-f1/f2 series...just one question, the documentation is via 109lair.com and it is claimed to be orginal scanned to pdf documents...how reliable/valid should i consider the documentation to be?

[Krusty]

Just calculate the (speed and climb)*(turn rate) to every ride

What utter nonsense. That does nothing. Might as well bring numerology into it. G6 turns about the same as the G2. It's basically as fast as a G2 and climbs like a G2. There's no debating the G2 appears to be a superior plane to the F4, right?

G6 outclimbs F4 at almost all alts (F4 takes lead right at its FTH then drops off).
G6 outruns F4 at almost all alts (F4 again takes small lead at FTH then drops off)
G6 has a turn radius only 10 feet wider than the G2. G2 is still only less than 40 feet wider than the F4.

It's hardly the dumptruck you seem to suggest. It is quite a versatile E fighter, and more nimble than most rides it goes up against. For the 109s I find the heavier K4/G14 to be less manuverable. Both of which the G6 outmanuvers and turns tighter than. They have more horsepower so they may "feel" lighter by being able to hold the nose up in high AoA longer, but this is not to ignore the fact they turn worse for their added weights.

[Ardy123]

What utter nonsense. That does nothing. Might as well bring numerology into it. G6 turns about the same as the G2. It's basically as fast as a G2 and climbs like a G2. There's no debating the G2 appears to be a superior plane to the F4, right?

G6 outclimbs F4 at almost all alts (F4 takes lead right at its FTH then drops off).
G6 outruns F4 at almost all alts (F4 again takes small lead at FTH then drops off)
G6 has a turn radius only 10 feet wider than the G2. G2 is still only less than 40 feet wider than the F4.

It's hardly the dumptruck you seem to suggest. It is quite a versatile E fighter, and more nimble than most rides it goes up against. For the 109s I find the heavier K4/G14 to be less manuverable. Both of which the G6 outmanuvers and turns tighter than. They have more horsepower so they may "feel" lighter by being able to hold the nose up in high AoA longer, but this is not to ignore the fact they turn worse for their added weights.

Krusty,
The G2 is a better ride than the g6 (G2 is prob the best 109), and the G2 is faster, out climbs & out turns the g6. Although marginal, it does make a noticeable difference.





The G2 turns has a turn radius about 20ft tighter than the g6 (~480 vs ~460).

I agree that the K4  does not turn like the G2 or the G6 (~65ft difference).

[Debrody]

Krusty, up a g-6, ill up an f-4, lets see who will be the winner. Or better, up 10 g-6s, ill call my squad in f-4s, lets see who will be the winner. Even tho the g-6 has more chance in the 10v10, it will lose.
I never said the g-2 is superior to the f-4. Its faster, climbs better, but also lost something from its turn rate. Even tho in a g-2 vs g-6 fight the plane wont decide the outcome, the g-2 pilot has more chance. The difference is even more noticable when you fly against a bird who can outturn you, ki-84, spit16 etc. You will find the job much easyer in the g-2, than in the g-6. Heck, the f-4 can do 334 on the deck with wep, the g-6 can do 337, thats a huge difference, isnt it? The g-2 can do 344 while the g-14 can do 355. I tested the f-4, with fuel for 20 mins, on the deck sustained turn rate (with the weaker engine, the difference in the instanteous turn rate is much larger): with any flap settings, it can turn around in 17.8-17.2 seconds. The g-6 can do a circle in 18.9-18.1 seconds, depends on the flap usage. G-2: 18.6-18.0  g-14: 19.0-18.4

Dangit, through my whole career, im flying that g-6 in 90% of my flight time. Even tho im far from a real top stick, i know what it can do against other rides. Its an über spit-outturner, pony-outrunner bird, belive me...   lol

[Krusty]

If your only criteria is float-like-a-butterfly stall speeds, then the 109E has the F4 beat. The G6 has marginally better climb and speed. I'm not saying the F4 isn't capable. I'm saying the G6 is more capable and has slightly more potential.


Again, unless your only criteria is stall speed handling in stall fights with narrow turn radii.

you're saying it's the worst of the entire 109 line despite having better stats than the F4, similar turn radius to the G2, and better turn radius than the G14/K4.


Does not track. Maybe you like one better than the other, but to decry it so? Nope. Don't buy it.

[Ardy123]

If your only criteria is float-like-a-butterfly stall speeds, then the 109E has the F4 beat. The G6 has marginally better climb and speed. I'm not saying the F4 isn't capable. I'm saying the G6 is more capable and has slightly more potential.


Again, unless your only criteria is stall speed handling in stall fights with narrow turn radii.

you're saying it's the worst of the entire 109 line despite having better stats than the F4, similar turn radius to the G2, and better turn radius than the G14/K4.


Does not track. Maybe you like one better than the other, but to decry it so? Nope. Don't buy it.

Krusty,
G14/K4 make up for loss of turn in climb rate by having enormous climb rates and the torque of the engine is so great that some crazy post stall moves can be done to 'cut' other planes turn radius...

The G6 doesn't have the torque of the K4 or even the g14 (on wep).

Also, unlike the G6 and before, the G14, and K4 have the tater which changes the fight as you strive for crossing snap shots because you don't need a stream of bullets to knock the other guy out of the sky.

I find the G2 as the best 109, better than the f4, as the climb is better but it still can turn well too. The G2 is just the best balance, that being said, I think I could kill myself in a k4 (ie K4 bunnies fighting G2 bunnies).

[Ruah]

The G2 accelerates better. . thats really important I think and thats where the difference is most marked.  The G6 is a fine 109 for sure like all 109s are, but the g2 is my ride of choise because its balanced, it accelerates well, it can do the vert and the horz game and its stable.

Of course the k4 is the most pleasurable to fly (for me) - but that 30mm is such a pain.

[sunfan1121]

Grizz and I did some non-scientific test G6 V G2 a while back. At the time we about equal skill level 1v1. we were playing about the same hours per tour.The player in the G6 won 8 out of 10. We found the G6 to be the better plane because of its stability in the stall. You don't have to fight as much at the top of a rolling scissor, and when you did go over the edge, the G6 recovered faster. For MA use the only significant difference is firepower.