Author Topic: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO  (Read 783 times)

Offline Nefarious

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A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« on: March 23, 2014, 11:48:03 AM »
First off, some advice from a CM...

Always update your Sides, Preferences, Numbers. Every month between FSO. Even if nothing changes, just "bump" it. When I personally split the sides, I typically use the order the preferences were updated at ahevents.org to create the sides for FSO. Now, this is not a guarantee you will fly on the side you want, but at least you made it known to the CM and CICs that you want to fly a certain side or aircraft.

Next... Your squad PW should be known to all your squad contacts and command staff. Take the time out this week to mail your command staff the PW and make sure they know it and their responsibilities as a squad contact. They have to be able to Update squad info and create and distribute CIC orders if you are not available to do so.

The public pre-frame discussion before sides are split and objectives go out is important for the players as much as it is for the CM's. You have a problem with a setting or inaccuracy in the setup? Those short weeks before Frame 1 is the time to be talking about with CM's and other players. Waiting till after the frame to show your feelings or frustration about the plane set or settings doesn't help anyone's enjoyment and possibly could have been changed before hand to avoid it. I am always open to civil discussion and suggestions and will try to make any arrangements I can to avoid a problem.

Now, opinions from a CIC...

The common theme for CICs seems to be split your side up into groups, assign them an objective and aircraft and let them have at it. Leave them enough discretion to get the job done and you're golden right? Well, Yeah that suffices, but in my opinion it has become quite lacking as of late. As a CIC, you should be flying WP's and getting accurate times and distances. Create a map. List the waypoints. Contact Squad Leaders and type more detailed information into mission orders to spur some squad interaction. This is your job to create a plan, leaving it open to interpretation to squad CO's leads me to my next thought...

Now some closing thoughts from a squad CO and player.

I distribute three sets of orders via Email and BBS a month describing our orders and any information I can to help my pilots prepare for Friday. I'm a pretty busy guy during my FSO setup months, but I typically try to contact other squads I am assigned with, especially if I am listed as a mission leader. I think this could be happening a little more between squads. I saw a lot of it this month, others PMd me and said they didn't.

I also (on all levels) am getting tired of NOE missions. They have their place and time in FSO, but IMO if you are in a level bomber, then you should be up off the ground and escorted with fighters. It seems that once a month, I get told or experience a NOE horror story in FSO. I'm not interested in leading an NOE strike and I am not interested in escorting one either. If you have a legitimate detailed plan drawn out that involves an NOE strike I might believe it will survive, but if you tell me 5 mins before launch that your (B-25s, G4M1s, JU87s etc...) are going NOE I am not going to be pleased.

There were some comments in the FSO attrition thread about FSO becoming like a three frame snapshot, personally I think there is validity in that, but I also think it's not so much as the scoring or objectives as it is the lack of squad interaction, quality of orders, overall lack of enthusiasm, attitude, or even disregard towards completing the objectives. That of course is my opinion as Squad CO and regular FSO pilot who flies 30+ FSO sorties a year. So please don't take it as a personal dig on anyone.

A while back there was a thread about the FSO players being the key to the success of FSO, It's true. The players and their actions have just a big of contribution to FSO as the FSO designs and settings. When the players show they are genuinely interested and participating on all levels it shows in the quality of the event and fun level. When players fail to show up because they didn't get the side or ride they wanted, or fail to get the orders out in a timely manner, or produce less than satisfactory orders or side interaction, well that shows to.

Just some input from different levels of perspective. Thanks for your time.
 
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline Stampf

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 12:02:53 PM »

From another CO.

Nice post Nef.  It is true...and 9 out of 10 threads in here I just bite my tongue and shake my head.

I see some of these setup related replies like..."Gonna sit this one out because...blah blah blah..."

If anyone of my 32 guys ever said/posted - that...they would need a new squad to fly with before the ink dried.  Guaranteed...and they all know it.

I saw a lot of crap an the Allied side this month that I almost never see on the Axis side.

It is up to us as Squad CO's to take care of eachother....not stick it to eachother first chance you get.

Teamwork, camaraderie, discipline, and dedication - If you don't have it inside your own squadron, how can you possibly lead an entire side of squadrons to victory?


FSO - the one place in this game to keep it real - to play WW2 fighter pilot.

Is it Friday yet?





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Offline DH367th

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 01:09:10 PM »
deleted
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 01:17:37 PM by DH367th »
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Offline Viper61

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2014, 12:23:53 PM »
Nef read your post several times.  Appreciate you putting it in here.  All good observations and comments.

On the CIC planning side of things I cant agree more.  We all have a responsibility to do out part and CIC who waits in Frame 3 to issues orders out 24 hours prior to lifting are just wrong and screw's us all.  The CIC duty roster is put out well in advance.  A planner in Frame 3 can plan out at 50% or more of his mission before Frame 1 even happen's.  I know as I have done it before.  And for those reading this and ever wondered how a CIC issues orders on Sunday after receiving them Sat from the CM's well he got off of his caboose and planned it ahead of time!

Capt1's point on another thread on using spread sheets to track what each squad has been flying and handing this off to the next guy is spot on.  A simple spread sheet for the Task Org, A map with routes / graphics made with MS Paint, and a simple word document on what you want the squads to do isn't asking that much.  You have to care.

That being said the FSO setup's need to have some changes as well.  You want innovative and creative planning?  Then change the plane setups from the way they have been done for many years.  Eliminate the "Min" number for the AC.  Have the "Max" number adjusted high to even the playing field when the historical plane sets don't match.  Add in non historical planes to even out the sides.  Give the CIC planning tools and not directives on what AC will be used and in what numbers.  When your defending you can plan on what type of Strike Package will hit your target nearly every time.  Meaning that if its bombers you know to set up high.  And then you do the math and can calculate fairly accurately how many bombers and what the probable escort package will be.  What planning is there when the Setup so limits the planner as to only be 1 or 2 ways to accomplish the mission without infringement on the special setup rules or AC types?  Wonder why you see so many NOE bomber missions?  Well its about the only flexibility a CIC has in some missions.  I don't use the word "canned" scenario's.  But you can see why others do.  To me the FSO has become a victim of "Mission Creep"  Didn't start out going there but its there now.

Its time for a change in the FSO and its time to re-look at how things have been done and make some changes that will open up planning options.  Change the planning options and open it up and I think you will see what you want.

Offline kilo2

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2014, 06:43:56 PM »
Very intresting viper I have heard similar ideas before. I agree with all you posted.
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Offline razmataz

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 09:35:58 AM »
When the GunFighters are assignd CIC duty I don't like to micro manage for a couple reason. One I don't know to much about anybody else's squad in here but my own. I don't know what every squads weakness and strengths are. I try to abide by everyone's ride requests to the best of my ability and the mission at hand. This give each CO and flight lead the ability to fly the missions the way they see fit. I believe my job when assigned CIC is to assign rides, missions, and mission leads. It then becomes CO's responsibility to get that job done using the tools at hand.

This last months FSO we had some great mission communications between squads that ended up being very successful. We also had a frame where coms didn't go so well, that all depends on the individual squads. Micro managing is not going make a squad that has no intention of preplanning or taking part in mission leads plans follow orders or do what CIC or the mission lead asked them to do.

I have nothing against guys that like to plan everything out for everyone, if CIC has time that's fantastic more power to him. Its a different way of leadership. But this brings up my second point, I simply don't have the time for this myself. I know I'm not the only one who works 60-70 hours a week. Point is even if I did have the time I still wouldn't micro manage.

When I have CIC duties I don't use spread sheets, I know some guys don't like that. But I don't know how, my RL job does not deal with such things so I never learned how to do it. My orders are all typed out in an email with all the pertinent information that all CO's need. When objectives are sent a map is usually supplied so I don't need to send a map. My Ops Officer enjoys micro managing and plotting everything out on a spread sheet, so luckily he's been taking care of our CIC duties for the last year.

From another CO.

I see some of these setup related replies like..."Gonna sit this one out because...blah blah blah..."

If anyone of my 32 guys ever said/posted - that...they would need a new squad to fly with before the ink dried.  Guaranteed...and they all know it.

My squad usually takes the month of July off, that's when we have our reunion. We do this cause it gives everyone in the squad a break and if anyone is interested in flying FSO they are free to fly with another squad which is set up in advance. This also insures that FSO community does not suffer by us not making our numbers. As far as individuals are concerned I am lucky to have guys that are dedicated, I don't make FSO participation mandatory. Our number one rule in the squad is have fun, without that participation would plummet.

Raz299

Offline Stampf

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 11:26:32 AM »
You took my comment completely wrong Raz.  

Not only is FSO voluntary...membership itself in the 11th is.  I've never asked anyone to join me due to the all luftwaffe nature of the group.  What I meant was...they would never say such a thing in public, and if someone wanted to sit one out...they simply would...without having to come to the bbs and say the set up sux so I'M out... or something similar.  Participation is not mandatory...support is.

<S>

« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 11:28:12 AM by Stampf »
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Offline razmataz

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 04:49:27 PM »
I might have taken it wrong and I apologize in doing so. My comment wasn't meant for anything bad towards your comment. I just wanted to say there are reasons to take a break. But I get what your saying.

I know JG11 is a good squad with lots of good people in it. Well except for maybe Molsman  :x Sorry Mols couldn't help myself. I got the opportunity to meet Molsman last year at WWII weekend in Reading, Pa. That's where our squad get together was.


Raz299 <S>

Offline Stampf

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 04:56:17 PM »
I might have taken it wrong and I apologize in doing so. My comment wasn't meant for anything bad towards your comment. I just wanted to say there are reasons to take a break. But I get what your saying.

I know JG11 is a good squad with lots of good people in it. Well except for maybe Molsman  :x Sorry Mols couldn't help myself. I got the opportunity to meet Molsman last year at WWII weekend in Reading, Pa. That's where our squad get together was.


Raz299 <S>

 :aok

I would say the same of the GunFighters.  And Mols...ja...he's always on report.  :D

I am the same way as you when I must CiC.  Just an email...and trust in my men.  Not everyone agrees with that and that OK, because like you...I have Herr Bino my Stab Major who enjoys putting out complete and descriptive operational orders.

Perhaps I can get down the road to Reading this year.

See you up.

<S>

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Offline Nefarious

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Re: A little input from CM, CIC and Squad CO
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 07:50:26 PM »
Its time for a change in the FSO and its time to re-look at how things have been done and make some changes that will open up planning options.  Change the planning options and open it up and I think you will see what you want.

Thanks, I appreciate your comments and suggestions and I will take a serious look at incorporating some of them into my future FSOs.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!