Solution to Head-On

[CptTrips]

sigh.......

I usually try to avoid these discusions but I'm gonna give it a try.

First, I'm no ace.  I'm better than some guys, worse than many.  Basically, I consider myself right in the meat of the bell curve.  But I can safely say that I have never died in a HO that I did not actively choose to engage in.

I would like to make the following points:

1.  There are many cases IMHO where the headon is a perfectly intelligent choice.  For instance: I'm out numbered 6 to 1, defending a base, I take off and offer a HO pass to a vulcher.  If he has alt, numbers, and position on me, I can take off again in 5 seconds and he has to fly 10 minutes to get back, and HE STILL CHOOSES to accept the HO then it is my moral DUTY to relieve him of his aircraft(consider it a stupidity tax).

In general in any situation where I find my self co-E and out numbered and unable to run I'll offer a HO to any idiot that will accept. When 4 to 1 out numbered 50/50 odds look pretty good. Anyone who has the odds in their favor and still accepts the HO deserves the rounds.

2. The most important point is that 80% of what people whine about HO aren't REALLY HO!
I have had lots of instances where someone has whined about HO where I was able to lay lead on them but they didn't have angle to lay lead on me.  Thats merely front quarter shot.  Lots of time when I'm B&Z I am shooting at thier front but they can't pull the nose up enough to hit me.  THATS NOT A HO!

Basically there is too much whining and not enough killing.  Anyone who dies in a HO either chose to participate or was to slow and weak or stupid to avoid.  Either way they get what they deserve. (sorry I'm 1/2 Klingon.)


IMHO,  

Wab

[Ghosth]

Nothing wrong with being half klingon Wab!
Personally I'm Ferengi, but I was raised by Klingons so the same morals apply, well to a point anyway  

As to HO's, they are a fact of life.Either hit firstest with the mostest or duck fast!

While I'm not a trainer Shaw is the bible,read it well & often.Seperation is the key to not only surviveing but turning the tables.

Flying your aircrafts strengths to the others weakness will ussually put you in a superior position.

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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels

[Vermillion]

Ok Definition time.

HO, "head on shot" for the new guys, is when you and your enemy are relatively at the same altitude and same energy states. Both aircraft approach from a distance nose to nose and one or both of the pilots attempts to take a shot. Imagine two Knights (literally   ) jousting with one another, but in airplanes and you get the idea. This can also be done in the vertical plane, but is much harder to discribe in a definition.

Now, If the enemy is higher than you (more than say 3k) and dives down on you to take a make an attack, and you turn your aircraft into the attack, this is not a HO. This is a BnZ (Boom and Zoom) attack, where the defender forced a front quarter shot.

If you are in a swirling furball, with many planes turning in many directions. And suddenly as you pull thru your turn, an enemy is doing the same thing but opposite of you and you come into a firing situation.  This is not a HO. This is a snapshot taken in a furball. A smart pilot wouldn't have been there in the first place, no matter their flying style  

Ok definitions aside.

I have seen many references to "how do I avoid the HO if the enemy is diving on me". Guys, if the enemy is diving on you its not a HO, he is using a style of attack called energy fighting where he is using a faster airplane (like a P-51) to attack a better turning plane (like a Spitfire).

If you are caught in this situation, there is already a problem before the enemy even starts to fire. It could be many things but here are a few things to think about.

• You have chosen to enter the fight without enough altitude
• Your Situational Awareness (SA) was not good enough to realize the enemy had a superior position
• Your SA failed to notice the enemy until he was ready to attack you
• You knowingly entered a fight from an inferior position
• You chose to fly an aircraft with superior turnrates, but is slower and/or cann't climb as well

These are just a few.

But lets make sure that what we are calling "HO's", are really HO's.

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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-23-2000).]

[Wanker]

You know, after reading all of the responses here and in my HO thread, I now realize that the people(like me) that don't know how to avoid the HO are the ones complaining about it.

Seems like this would be an ideal topic for a large training class in the TA. Would one of you famous trainer types be up for holding a "HO avoidance clinic" sometime soon? I think you'd get a strong showing of folks.

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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"

[Westy]

heee he he.

"I have seen many references to "how do I avoid the HO if the enemy is diving on me". Guys, if the enemy is diving on you its not a HO, he is using a style of attack called energy fighting where he is using a faster airplane (like a P-51) to attack a better turning plane (like a Spitfire)."

Last night I started a dogfight with a P-51 (or was he in a 38 at the time? no matter)
He was doing hammer heads, I was doing zoom climbing to meet him. Suddenly his diving nose is pointed at my climbing nose. I visually zoomed in...(I'd just gotten kilt in HO's, real ones, at the merge four times in a row).... and I figure now this guy is going to shoot, so I will too. We both opened fire at about the same time. We both died.
 I couldn't have avoided it. Not without just stalling and then tumbling like a leaf.
 I did get the complimentary snide remark on the open channel, "...nice HO..." - it doesn't bother me anymore.
 But banana is right (in another topic). HO's and jousting seems to be the predominate method lately at the initial encounter. I'll just practice the non self defeating evasives  that you (Verm), Lephturn and others have written about.  I'll solve it for myself - Please! - no 'artificial sweeters' in the game for me though.

  -Westy

[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-23-2000).]

[RAM]

CC westy...thats the kind of HO I really like...you were in disadvantage and you forced your Higher-E foe to a Headon, when he had the iniciative and advantage. He did a mistaken maneouver and you were clever enuf to caught him in it. <S> to your HO.

Yesterday over F16 I had a very similar situation...but I was in the higher side    . I had a high fw190A-8 over a much lower Niki driven by Fatty. I bounced, he evaded, I hi yoyo-ed to get firing position...but I did a very Hi and slow yoyo and when I pointed down I had in my face those 20mm spreading bullets...   and I was so slow that I couldn't ever fire by myself!!!        

<S> fatty...you did a nice work (yep I blewed it losing so much E...but even in a faster Yoyo I'd have faced your cannons...maybe resulting both dead...but I fell in your trap 100%). Thats the Kinda HO that is clever to do. The one it isnt is to be 10K over an enemy faster than him and dive in his 12 to do a Headon...that is DWEEB!...in fact if you are Co-E with a SpitfireIX vs ANY plane, it is Dweeb to HO, cuz you have a Huge advantage already.

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Ram, out

JG2 "Richthofen"

   



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 03-23-2000).]

[Vermillion]

banana, I'm not a trainer type, but I'm certainly willing to spend some time in the TA with yah practicing anti-HO techniques.

Especially since we're squaddies and all... Oh wait, not anymore you squad jumping spitdweeb bastich     Just kidding.

You know how to get ahold of me  



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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"

[Sparks]

OK - I'm guilty - I always start to look for a head on pass (but I don't shoot) but I plead Air Warrior Insanity.
I am new to online flight sim combat and have just come to AH from AirWarrior (only a week ago)and I was trianed in there to go for the head on merge. 95% of all hits were thrown out so it was the safest way to engage and, if you like, an agreed ettiquette. All the training material started with a head on merge....
So I carried on - perhaps part of the problem is the number of people coming across from AW ??
Anyway I agree to try and stop HOing.

[BigJim]

Heheheh I find myself "caught" at times due to my poor acm, in a position where I cannot avoid the HO but most times it is my own fault and yes I am human and like everyone else have bad days where I "whine" but later I realize it was MY fault and no one else's that I died in an HO.  I do have some problems with "net lag" sometimes where I am unable to tell if I am catching a bogie or if he is flying at me until it is too late to avoid the HO, these are frustrating but NOT the the fault of the sim, just my lousy connects.

BigJim

[Minotaur]

HO?  LOL    Not again.....

I HO sometimes, why?  

Because it is fun and I actually win sometimes.  That makes me feel good.  

Otherwise HO's are pretty easy to avoid if you have enough E.  Stop by the TA when I am there, I will show anyone how to do it.

Who am I?  I am the "MinoTaurget" and an AH trainer.  I am a lousy pilot, but I can avoid the HO and so can you.

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[jarbo]

I agree that the "forward shields" approach would do more harm than good.  

I find a good barrel roll can avoid the headon in many cases.  Not that I avoid many, im a sucker for em all the time...lol
 
Jarbo
of the Buccaneers