Author Topic: 16 vs 16 base take  (Read 596 times)

Offline Wizz

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16 vs 16 base take
« on: February 17, 2015, 11:24:48 PM »
Squad of 16 working together to capture a base. Well executed Coordinated strike. Seen on sector dar defenders know it's coming. Just assume it's not a sneak it's defended. Base shutdown respawn ability taken away does a squad of 16 take a base with 16 defenders?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 11:26:29 PM by Wizz »
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Offline JunkyII

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 01:53:04 AM »
Squad of 16 working together to capture a base. Well executed Coordinated strike. Seen on sector dar defenders know it's coming. Just assume it's not a sneak it's defended. Base shutdown respawn ability taken away does a squad of 16 take a base with 16 defenders?
If the defense is a coordinated defense, then no...

Say those 16 are all hitting the airfield, town ect ect...4 of the enemy hit troops, 10 take on the incoming and 2 go goon hunting....doesn't matter if you have the field down...troops take longer to resupply.



Combined arms.........

3 B17s (Kill field, Kill town
12 tempest deack/escort/aircover/GV clean up(this is where it would get tricky)
1 M3

Only way I could see that mission working against say another squad

Tactically speaking, when you are fighting a larger force or even force....you want to either have an enabler that gives you more firepower(B17s) or you want to surprise the enemy(NOE).
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Offline Chilli

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 04:41:18 AM »
Great discussion here.  :lol  This part of Aces High is more adrenaline pumping than all the noe, and port grabs put together, but for some reason, participating in the war has sunk to the bottom of the list for skilled players.

One of the main things that has always come to my mind, has been the EZ mode button for base defense.

:old:

Back in AH1 the town was flat, deacked an field was being vulched without the use of a single bomber.  I only hope that whatever comes out in the next version, does not push team work further into the dark corner.  :pray

What I mean by team work is the opposite of half the country settling in on one base.  It should be more like half the country spread across the map raking in territory and the other half attempting to hold on to possessions.  :rock

Offline Zimme83

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 06:03:49 AM »
if u kill vh +fh quick enough to prevent all 16 defenders from upping fighters, 2 sets of tu-2 for that. on pass for that and bh:s on 2nd pass.
A lanc to wf town, fighters wait untill center guns are down and kill the rest to deack town. Then kill the remaining cons and bring troops in.

But its a lot of things that u have to consider, friendly/enemy gv-spawns? and how far from town? distance betweenvbase and town, size of base etc. But in general the defence will win, coordinate an attack is a lot harder than putting up a defence.
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Offline save

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 07:41:17 AM »
if defending team have a high ENY cap , it probably be easy, otherwise it depends on tactical situation.
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Offline NatCigg

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 08:02:44 AM »
the defense should hold considering the amount of bombing and destruction that needs to be done in addition to the auto ack factor.

A lot of factors to weigh that could help or hurt. bomber formations enabled, defensive strategy, time, altitude + position, player skill.

One thing i know is im ready to try it!

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Offline oldskool65

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 08:13:24 AM »
My comrades in No1 Sq RAF and myself have taken bases against overwhelming superior forces with 5 pilots !!!
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Offline bozon

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 08:25:24 AM »
Defenders roll 4 La7s an that fly around at full speed and keep the attacking fighters busy - no need to take risks in shooting down attackers.
The other 12 defenders roll 2 wirbs and 10 m3s that repeatedly spawn from the next base and rush to the town to resupply.

Base capture failed.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 09:13:01 AM »
Defenders roll 4 La7s an that fly around at full speed and keep the attacking fighters busy - no need to take risks in shooting down attackers.
The other 12 defenders roll 2 wirbs and 10 m3s that repeatedly spawn from the next base and rush to the town to resupply.

Base capture failed.

If the attackers are more than just a bunch of jabos piling on a base, this would be relatively easy to counter.
For example one of them could have made a quick Arado run to the enemy troop facility (just needs one run in three hours). And when the actual basetake is about to begin, one attacker porks barracks at the resupplying base (with a downtime of about one hour.)
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Offline hgtonyvi

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 11:59:57 AM »
Nah best way to capture is a storch and a c47.
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Offline Someguy63

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 12:04:58 PM »
Squad of 16 working together to capture a base. Well executed Coordinated strike. Seen on sector dar defenders know it's coming. Just assume it's not a sneak it's defended. Base shutdown respawn ability taken away does a squad of 16 take a base with 16 defenders?

Due to the nature of this situation it depends on the skills of the pilots on either side. Skilled defenders can knock out 16 attackers, vise versa.

As a side note it's more fun to be the defender for me. :)
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Offline Wizz

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 01:06:06 PM »
If the defense is a coordinated defense, then no...

Say those 16 are all hitting the airfield, town ect ect...4 of the enemy hit troops, 10 take on the incoming and 2 go goon hunting....doesn't matter if you have the field down...troops take longer to resupply.



Combined arms.........

3 B17s (Kill field, Kill town
12 tempest deack/escort/aircover/GV clean up(this is where it would get tricky)
1 M3

Only way I could see that mission working against say another squad

Tactically speaking, when you are fighting a larger force or even force....you want to either have an enabler that gives you more firepower(B17s) or you want to surprise the enemy(NOE).

From my experience flying with the best in the game when it comes to base takes I want to pick apart what Junky has here as its one of the best responses so far out of some great responses.

1. I agree with Junky that a well coordinated defense of a base is next to impossible to take. The problem in this lies in how hard it is to properly coordinate a defense. It's not in the culture of AH to play defensively.  In this scenario the attacking squad has both the element of surprise and time invested. There are great defenders in this game. First stick who comes to mind would be snailman. That guy is responsible for more blown base takes and strat runs than anyone I know. Take away 1 element in what I'm going to explain how to take a well defended base and it seems  to stop the machine such as disrupting bombers on town or base shutdown, defending a resupply base, or even defending a strat. It just takes 1 player out of 16 to kill an attack. It's finding those elements in time that makes the difference.

2. Any attacking nation or squad must invest a considerable amount of time outside of the horde to take a base. The more time invested the higher the chance for success. For example, any good base taking squad will make strat runs to keep down times high. This task alone  averages about an hour in game play without any guarantees if you head straight in without avoiding dar or climbing to Jupiter. I have little faith in B17s and wf towns. Requires 2 people for success vs 1 lanc that can WF a town and deack in 4 passes. Only way to guarantee a 1 man wf at a defended bases would be to come in above 22k. Rarely is a town defended above that ceiling it's just a fact. It takes the better part of 20-30 minutes to reach that altitude with 25% fuel even longer at 50% with lancs. It takes the same amount of time to shutdown a vh or troops at a neighboring base/bases. Yes defenders have an advantage of immediate respawn. To counter this you have to invest time. High altitude WF runs and base shutdowns along with shutting down spawns.

3. Fighter cap is critical for the success of any defended base no matter the numbers. Defenders are automatically at a disadvantage starting out on the deck. Low and slow in prop planes can never be all good no matter the plane or numbers. Good cap fighters won't rush a kill they will wait for the right moment. There's no point in engaging a defender if the base has any hangers up just like a gv base.

4. Smart players tend to us m3's more than goons. I've seen guys drive 50 miles in an m3 and hide near a town for an hour vs taking a goon. Why is that? People goon hunt when defending. A goon is very easy to spot and kill. A goon is limited in what it can do and how it can hide. An m3 has no restrictions once it's near a town.

5. Timing and execution is critical for any attack on a base. We have all seen the endless out of synch waves that tend to stall a take or that one knuckle head who didn't stick with the plan. Everything must come together for an attacking team to take a base. It doesn't take much at all for a defender to ruin the greatest of plans. This is one of many elements that makes Aces High 2 one of the best games in the world. It's not simply wf/de acking a base and running troops. Resupply must be shut off, base shutdown,  troops defended and kept hidden.

Got some work to do will add to this later today.
 

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Offline waystin2

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 01:19:59 PM »
Defense is always easier.  Offense is more difficult .  A true test would be  two opposing, same sized groups simultaneously attacking and defending from adjacent bases.  This is a contest of skills that run the length and breadth of Aces High. 
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Offline Wizz

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 01:26:37 PM »
My comrades in No1 Sq RAF and myself have taken bases against overwhelming superior forces with 5 pilots !!!

I believe it. I bet it wasn't simply wf/deack troops if you were up against overwhelming superior odds. On average in those cases were AAA and city strat down under 80%? How many times did a squady have to eliminate a threat vs pass and hold alt? Was the base shutdown? Was it just your squad or did your squad show up to a furball base a simply take it? Do explain for the good of the discussion! Think you got some golden nuggets to share :salute
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Offline Wizz

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Re: 16 vs 16 base take
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 01:45:16 PM »
the defense should hold considering the amount of bombing and destruction that needs to be done in addition to the auto ack factor.

This is the overwhelming dynamic when 2 opposing hordes meet during a basetake. Horde flies in to take a base and is met by a horde defending.

I'm not against the horde. Haven't seen the horde capitalized the way it should be. A 4 man team supporting a horde poking troops and ords or shutting down another base to support the main attack will always tip the advantage to the attackers or defenders whoever they are supporting.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 02:29:54 PM by Wizz »
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