Touch controllers for full immersion

[SAAMIAM]

I already know im going to catch a lot of flak for this post but im not known for shying away from my opinion..

As far as I know, as of today there only 2 pilots using touch controllers (these are the native controllers to a VR system) for Oculus they are called touch controllers, for htc vive, i dont know.
Myself aka SAAM I AM aka FounderJeff(FndrJeff) and DubDubz are the only diehard advocates of the touch controller usage in AcesHigh. I have had and used my beloved HOTAS for years and years. If fact i never thought of flying any other way.. until AcesHigh III VR crossed my path.
Why? Quite simply, immersive realism. Within minutes i have forgotten that im holding a controller in my hand and not the flight stick. I must say though, i do not grab the throttle anymore. It is too inconsistent. So I use the left hat switch for throttle operations.
When you are in VR, you are sitting in a scaled cockpit, in a scaled plane so obviously the natural thing to do is grab the stick and fly.. Some say they are garbage, not responsive enough, not as good as a HOTAS.. I call BS.. in fact I dare say that Using the touch controllers are more realistic than your HOTAS.. of course a drawback is that you can not play floppy fish herky jerky controller like so many of you do to avoid being shot down. Thats just fine by me as its never been my style of play. As soon as they have haptic trackable footwear that I can use for my pedals i will be complete.
I get shot down more than I shoot down others but the use of touch controllers has nothing to do with my kill/death ratio. So then Mr. Saam I Am, why do you get shot down so often?? Below is my list of top reasons I selfbrand #diesalot

1.) I dont run away from a fight. I dont care if im in a bf110 and you are a spit16 or yak3, I wont make a diving pass at you then run like hell to get away. If I engage you, i stay until one of us is dead.
2.) I dont care about your field ack or cv ack. If you attack me and then run away like a lil... I will chase you and when I catch you, I will kill you or die trying. You are not dragging into your ack, i am chasing you into your ack because you were too much a coward to stay and fight when you tried to vulch or pick me. Running to your ack will not save you from me. 7out of 10 times your ack kills me and thats ok with me because it was those other times when you thought you got away with your lame donut tactics and found yourself getting shot down over your own field that makes it worth while for me.
3.) I'm a hanger queen King.. I love to fly the hanger queens. P39, P40, Hurricane, I16, BF110, HE152 and occasionally a spit8 or LA5. Why the queens? Because shooting down your 190, spit16,yak3,la7 is that much more satisfying. Call me weird but its just too easy to kill you if i use the high end planes.

4.) Experience. As I near my 1 year mark in Aces High I have to remind myself that 90% of you die hards have 10 to 15 years experience in this game so any advantage or trick or angle of attack I might discover and use is nothing more than a been there done that for you old salts. All i can say to that is. I am watching, I am learning from you and soon enough I am beating you.

Not withstanding the reasons above there is one reason above all that is responsible for my higher than average death rate. That reason is "look behind". For years  I used it, hell, in IL2 i almost exclusively flew while looking behind me. It makes evading easier, it makes it easier to get on the bad guy six. It lets you see how many bad guys are chasing you. And for all of you arcade flying game haters.. its cheating, its un natural and its literally impossible  to do in real life. It is an unrealistic arcade game type feature that we have all accepted and tolerated because it makes the sim easier. The problem is now you are all addicted to it and can't fly without it regardless of how unrealistic it is. When I went full VR and touch controller I decided It was all or nothing and so I disabled all the fake donut look around control options. And yes, they are fake donut viewing options. If its not something you could do with your head and neck in the cockpit of a plane then it is a fake donut view control. Period.
So, when I am flying, I can only see as far as my head/neck/cockpit allows me to see. Some give me great view (I16) and some just suck (F4u) but whatever the view, its natural, realistic and no different than the pilots of wwii had to work with.
It makes me wonder just how good most of you aces would be without that handicap cheat. We will never know because like I said, you have all become addicted and dependent on that unrealistic game feature. I too was addicted until VR set me free..
We shall however soon find out. I am developing a VR Battlesports league called AcesLeagues and the pilots flying in it will be limited to the use of touch controllers and the unrealistic view behind option will be disabled.
Yes, I know i will be getting tons of pushback and banter regarding my feelings about the look behind issue and I'll tell you what.. Show me a single instance where any pilot, in any plane ever can or had the ability to swing his head a complete 180degrees and with xray vision looked through his plane to see exactly behind him and ill forever shut my mouth.

In fact for widest dissemination of my reasons for getting shot down i will make a seperate post with this body..   

[atlau]

I already know im going to catch a lot of flak for this post but im not known for shying away from my opinion..

...

In fact for widest dissemination of my reasons for getting shot down i will make a seperate post with this body..

We get it. You're the best. Everyone else sucks. If you die it's because they have an unfair advantage that your code of honor prevents you from using.

Just go fly and have fun. It's a game.

[The Fugitive]

We get it. You're the best. Everyone else sucks. If you die it's because they have an unfair advantage that your code of honor prevents you from using.

Just go fly and have fun. It's a game.

 

[Puma44]

I already know im going to catch a lot of flak for this post but im not known for shying away from my opinion..

So, what’s your point?  Pay your $14.95 a month and play the game the way you want.  The self admiration and congratulations may be better received by your bathroom mirror.

[Meatwad]

So.....

If you win, then its because you are better then them and your touch contollers make you god

If they win, then they were cheating

[toasted]

im waiting for the full hand tracking from the quest to hit the rift.

then in theory you dont even need the controllers.

and you could just have a stick on a base that wasnt actually connected to anything.
and you cold have cardboard cutouts of various panels.
then things would "feel" like they were in the right position.

and instead of having to wire any of it up, the camera just reads your hand motions.

[HAMMERR]

touch controllers are like wearing a full body condom to have dinner with a lady.   No thanks, I like to feel the wheel to seal the deal. 

Someday when haptic feedback is strong enough for aircraft level force feedback I might change my mind. Also someday it’d be sweet to be able to feel all the textures in a cockpit like leather, sheepskin etc. but that’s movie levels of dreaming...

[Meatwad]

Also someday it’d be sweet to be able to feel all the textures in a cockpit like leather, sheepskin etc. but that’s movie levels of dreaming...

Sign me up! Well as long as there is a cute stewardess in a short skirt in there too

[Vulcan]

I disagree with your claim entirely.

Touch controlers are not more immersive. HOTAS is. HOTAS is a far more accurate representation of a stick, throttle, and pedals.

[Eagler]

Touch controls are for those who cannot afford a decent  jstick and throttle

One using them will never consistently win against a decent pilot wjth a decent hotas

Enjoy your immersion and frequent trips to the tower

<S>

Eagler

[Vulcan]

im waiting for the full hand tracking from the quest to hit the rift.

then in theory you dont even need the controllers.

and you could just have a stick on a base that wasnt actually connected to anything.
and you cold have cardboard cutouts of various panels.
then things would "feel" like they were in the right position.

and instead of having to wire any of it up, the camera just reads your hand motions.

They already exist: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398880.0.html

You VR newbs need to read my godlike threads more often.

[toasted]

They already exist: https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,398880.0.html

You VR newbs need to read my godlike threads more often.

saw that, not what i meant at all.

also, i dont get the point in those really, so you convert you vr grip into a stick.
but then a dedicated stick is both objectively better, and cheaper.
that is the vr controller on a mount.
sure that is probably an improvement on them free floating.

what i meant is it can actually be done with no vr controller. so it just reads your hands.

then even a broomstick, or toilet plunger suction cupped to the floor can be a stick. or you could use no stick at all i guess.
and for an advanced use you could optionally have fake panels with switches that physically move but are not wired up to anything.
the cameras would read your hand or switch position, and you would feel the switch in the right spot.
things could even be covered in realistic materials in the spots you would touch.

and because there is no physical connection they could be easily reconfigured for different layouts/ and it really could just be cardboard cutouts and cheap.

not really all that science fiction either. the oculus quest does hand tracking without needing to hold a controller. down to the individual finger even.

of course dedicated hardware will probably always be better. and my ideal use is to keep my HOTAS, and add hand tracking to operate cockpit switches and the like.

[Vulcan]

Quest can only see so much, it cannot have a 360 degree of your hand. The fidelity is relatively low compared to a dedicated controller.

[toasted]

Quest can only see so much, it cannot have a 360 degree of your hand. The fidelity is relatively low compared to a dedicated controller.

true, but it has no problem deciding where your hand is. and finger out flipping switch, or whole hand grabbing a lever is very doable.

of course i want that combined with a traditional hotas. because even the hand held vr controller doesnt have the resolution needed for throttle and flight controls.