Author Topic: Some Additions to Scoring of `Nothing Moves, Nothing Flys` Frame 1 (Read 1009 times)

Buzzbait · « **on:** January 22, 2002, 12:56:55 PM »

S!

As part of the special rules for this TOD, Mission 1 of the assigned missions is mandatory. It must be flown.

Mission 1 for the RAF involved an attack on Vehicles, the `Rommel` mission.

The mission clearly stated that it was a priority, that the loss of a few aircraft was less important than killing the General in charge of the Enemy land forces.

The RAF C/O for Frame 1 opted not to follow through on Mission 1 and aborted when the assigned aircraft got within sight of the enemy coast.

For that reason I am going to penalize the RAF side to the tune of 50 victory points.

These are not applied against the individual Squad Scores, but against the side total.

With the 50 point penalty to the RAF, the Luftwaffe then wins Frame 1.

daddog · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2002, 01:38:29 PM »

miss post.

Dinger · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2002, 01:45:15 PM »

That makes it Axis 307.5 to Allies 356.

Just out of curiosity, how was the convoy set up?
I mean, how many vehicles were there, and how long did they drive back and forth? Who was driving them for that matter?

From my (grunt) perspective, the decision to abort was based in part on the fact that we weren't sure there was a target to be hit. It takes at most half an hour to drive a panzer between the two fields, and it took longer than that for us to get there. According to the writeup, for all we knew Rommel could be cooling his heels at the base.

There other part, was, of course, the overwhelming air superiority in the area.

The penalty's fine by me: given the extreme hostile conditions over the target, the uncertainty not merely concerning the target's location, but also concerning its existence, aborting the attack was the sensible move; indeed had we attacked, the Axis would have won the frame hands down.
Naturally, such penalties should be part of the writeup. I'd recommend something you can enforce, such as "failure to cause any damage to the target will result in n. points being deducted."
Otherwise, we could have sent one low-fuel mossie on a suicide run over the target and not been deducted the points.
As is clear here, saying a "mission must be flown" can be interpreted ambiguously. We were tasked that mission. We flew it.

Actually, as it was, we did have a bomber patrol 20 and 21 late in the frame. He didn't hit anything.

funkedup · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2002, 02:08:21 PM »

1. We did send one plane to that area after he got separated from us. It was Wes34th1.

2. Here are the orders I received from Allied HQ. I followed them.

Quote

We have recently received information from French Resistance members in the Calais area regarding the movements of the new Wehrmacht Army Group `B` commander, General Erwin Rommel. It seems he will be touring the defences in the area during the day tommorrow in 2nd Panzer Division Armoured Vehicles. His route is believed to between two unused airfields, (A20 and A21) and through a Werhmacht refueling facility. (Refinery in 8.9) Attacking Squadrons are to take off at first light loaded with bombs and rockets and proceed to area 8.9 to hunt for this target. Squadron command is warned that Luftwaffe Fighters are present in numbers in the area and caution is to be exercised. Ack will also be heavy as there are SBs in the area also.

Take-off field is A54. Escort will be provided by 2 Spitfire squadrons. Climb to 15k and head direct to the target. If attacked enroute put you noses down and use speed to escape. You will have to drop down to low alt over the target anyway. It is VITAL that the Mossie force survives intact with only minimal losses. If opposition is too great then break off the attack and run for cover. We can try again later in the frame if need be. Priorty targets are M3 carriers, then Panzer IVs. Do not make repeated attacks on FPs at all (I'll gamble that Rommel isn't in one), and if the situation is getting too hot RTB rather than take losses trying to kill every last GV.

Vladd · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2002, 02:21:14 PM »

My mission tasking was for the Mossies to attack the primary, then rearm and hit the SBs at A11. The Tiffies would hit A15. The AKs of course were assigned to the fourth target but this was not a factor.

4 Squads were allocated to the primary in all, they flew the mission and the escort was over the target for quite some time. However, as my orders had stressed caution the Mossies did indeed not press the attack.

The Tiffies attack OTOH was decisively broken up by the AKs long before they reached their target. So after A11 was hit I had the ability to launch one final attack. Would the fact that the Tiffies had taken 4 losses even though they had not got remotely near their target still have counted as a 'mission attempted?' I felt possibly not... The fact that we had got planes over the Rommel area but not A15 encouraged me to decide to hit the latter target. I could just have easily ordered the planes to look for Rommel again. Looks like I guessed wrong

Anyhow, that's why Buzz is the referee

Vladd

p.s. I still get 307.5 to 356.

Buzzbait · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2002, 03:04:57 PM »

S!

"Take-off field is A54. Escort will be provided by 2 Spitfire squadrons. Climb to 15k and head direct to the target. If attacked enroute put you noses down and use speed to escape. You will have to drop down to low alt over the target anyway. It is VITAL that the Mossie force survives intact with only minimal losses. If opposition is too great then break off the attack and run for cover. We can try again later in the frame if need be. Priorty targets are M3 carriers, then Panzer IVs. Do not make repeated attacks on FPs at all (I'll gamble that Rommel isn't in one), and if the situation is getting too hot RTB rather than take losses trying to kill every last GV."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above is Vladd`s orders, not in Mission description.

You are right in assuming the target (Rommel Vehicles) was not going to be there long. You had a window to hit it and after that it was gone.

The Mission descriptions are phrased to indicate the parameters pretty closely.

Buzzbait · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2002, 03:28:00 PM »

S! Dinger

The vehicles were driven by `Gunners Squad` members. These are TOD participants who specialize in using GV`s, Vessels and other non-aircraft.

Gunner`s Squad can be on either side, depending on the circumstances of the missions. They are there so the Arena can be populated with objects other than aircraft, without forcing a TOD Squad to detach members to crew them. Their score acrues to the side they are attached too.

Gunner`s Squad members will be present in Frame 2 also. Where, only the designer knows...

Gremlin · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2002, 04:28:57 AM »

Buzzbait,

I really can't see how you've come to the conclusion that you've reached. I was Acting CO for the firebirds and I can assure you that Vladd did everything possible to hit all targets.

What you are forgetting is, it was axis who were understrenght, it was you guys who decided to assign the AK's to axis. All Vladd's plans were made knowing how many pilots he had at his disposal. We would have been able to hit many more targets hadn't we (firebirds) been jumped by the AK's shortly after launch.

So buzzbait if ya need to penalise someone then penalise axis for not showing enough pilots. Not allies for doing their best.

I can see you feel a need to uphold the spirit of the TOD and I you for that, but this kinda thing is just spoiling it Buzz.

Either way the maths clearly states that allies still win frame 1 correct??

Anyway cribbing aside CM's are doing a great job , and thank you.

__________________
Flt.Lt.Gremlin
Firebirds, 56 "Fighter" Sqn RAF.
Second Tactical Air Force

"Quid si coelum ruat - 'What if heaven falls?'"

klem · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2002, 12:15:53 PM »

First a big thank you to all the guys that organise these events. They do a really great job in their own valuable time. I have a question or two about the scoring this time but whatever the wrinkles after a frame I would still attend these because they are so much fun.

Something I don't understand however, and bear in mind I am just the cannonfodder and not party to the CO's detailed mission objectives. And there is no personal aspect to this and I am not looking for a change of scores.

Undisclosed penalties (even to COs?) not announced in the rules?
Wasn't the penalty 'Not Scoring Points due to not killing Rommel?'

Very understandable allowance for the 190s landing a little late but with openly stated rules about end of frame, how does that decision sit alongside applying undisclosed penalties?

I have a genuine concern about inventing and bending the rules because it can go too far and really wreck the fun. Where do you draw the line and who decides? Shouldn't (only) declared rules be adhered to? This is really my only point, the above are just examples.

The only hard question I have is this. Didn't the Allies finish with in excess of 50 points over the Axis and so still win?

klem