Author Topic: The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!  (Read 325 times)

Offline lemur

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2002, 04:33:37 PM »
The problem with 'zone limits' is that it really screws the country that's down to just a few bases.

Think about it:

Country 'a' has 50 fields and 30 people online.
Country 'b' has 4 fields and 60 people online.

With limits on AC taking off, country 'b' is screwed.

Better that the factories produce x amount of supplies. More fields = supplies stretched thinner (and more manual resupply required when bases take damage.) Fewer fields = more supplie runs per base.

This gives a slight edge to the underdog (field-wise) but it can be overcome by good tactics by either side.

And for the record: I love furballs. I don't think slowing down field growth will hinder them.

~Lemur

Offline Sparks

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2002, 07:46:15 PM »
Quote

The problem with 'zone limits' is that it really screws the country that's down to just a few bases.

Think about it:

Country 'a' has 50 fields and 30 people online.
Country 'b' has 4 fields and 60 people online.

With limits on AC taking off, country 'b' is screwed.


I don't see that as a problem though - if you are down to 4 fields then the reset is nearly inevitable.  If you have 60 people then you will be defending in light fighters hence not using as much resource or organising a counter strike mission in which case the mission planner entusiasts had better do their homework on what they use.  

I still stand by this model - as an example I was on the other day and us Bishes were defending A40 (I think) from attacks from A19.
I think I counted 4 missions launched from 19 all of which were defended off. During this time several of us got through to 19 with buffs by taking long high flights from rear fields but none of that bombing was worth a damn - in the end 40 fell to the umptieth mission.  If the strat model was based on resource usage and supply then the missions would run out of ammo / fuel and the bombing would have restricted the aircraft numbers that could up - the two factors combined could have meant that the enemy could have actually left their base vulnerable to attack.

Conversely on another occasion the enemy had hit one of our airfield with an organised buff strike all our fuel and ammo was burning etc - however one FH was left standing and within minutes we had 10+ fighters in the air and the attack was fought off - really we should have lost that field. Or at least that mass fighter launch from a nearly flat field should have taken it's available resources down to nothing.  If you are defending and you know that the plane your in is probably the last from that field then you will be more likely to look after it :) .

Offline Blindman

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2002, 12:57:55 AM »
There hasn't been any strat bombing since v1.08 came out...


longing for the days of v1.07 when it was worth the time and effort to buff.

also if v1.09 does not fix strat or when my 6 months for 5 months DEAL runs out (is only thing keeping me here now because it was paid for and not refundable) , I'M OUTTA HERE
Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

Offline Hortlund

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2002, 08:52:05 AM »
What Tac said

Offline qts

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2002, 03:38:47 PM »
One thing this thread does show is the need for a 'Show me what I can fly from here' button in the Hangar view.

Offline Don

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2002, 04:12:24 PM »
>>I suggest the answer is to make the current strat model more realistic but taylored to game play. <<

Sparks:
I think the current strat model is tailored to gameplay :) But, you are correct, there are many opposing views, and it seems to me that all or most of them are directly attributable to individual preferences.

This sim is a game, with certain aspects of it modeled after a period of time in history. For many, gameplay means just that; A person may not want to spend several hours to get the satisfaction of destroying and capturing an nme base; hell it takes long enuf on some nights. IMO, these are the nights that make for good fights and memories in the game.
Proportional destruction and use of fields isn't necessarily a bad idea...for some other sim, one which may be in campaign format which one can fire up, pause when the wife calls, save when real life calls etc. but, not for this sim/game.
For me, I don't want to take off from a field if it has porked fuel down to 25%, the fuel consumption setting allows a few minutes flying time. Not enuf to climb up and annoy an attacking force. I accept this. The regen times for some depots and fields/towns are abbreviated as well. THis should mean to an attacking force that they have to get the job done efficiently; if they don't they have to start all over again; teamwork is the key.
I just don't think it is necessary to re-do the game/sim in this manner. I'd rather see some attention paid to the servers and other quirks that affect my enjoyment.

Offline Kweassa

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2002, 06:07:07 AM »
We need a ground war going on.

 The main targets of strat should be cities, villages, towns, forts,
 industrial  areas - destruction  of these  areas should result  in
 enemy ground forces waning, unsupplied and low in morale - thus the
 defending forces are pressed to retreat, and then the air force
 present at the area retreats with them.

 Only then, an enemy airfield is captured ALONG with crucial
 strategic points(cities, villages, supply depots etc..) of the map.

 The attacker's ground forces use it as a staging area, and the
 ground war continues on.

 We need some sort of way to simulate - even in a crude way(such as
 the really crude example of Fighter Ace territorial combat room) -
 a ground war. Something that goes on independantly from AH players,
 so the elements of strategic use of air forces are directly connected
 with the needs of ground forces.

 A ground battle happens, somehow controlled by the system with some
 standard rules. For instance, an infantry division and tank group
 is heading towards a some sort of city area nearby.

 There are small tactical targets near that city such as vehicle
 bases, small supply depots, fortifications and etc. The players may
 aid it in the tactical scale of JABO, knocking out fortifications
 and enemy infantry and armor columns. If the battle is taking long,
 the attackers change to siege tactics, and the players may need to
 deploy level bombers to destroy logistics lines. Friendly ground
 troops would be in big advantage, and the the target area would be
 conquered.

 ...


 I imagine this to be something like WWIIOL. The problem with
 WWIIOL is it tried to simulate EVERY part of war ob a player
 participation basis - which just not worked. If we can somehow
 introduce strategic elements of capture/conquer simular to WWIIOL,
 but only a part of it controlled by players(the air combat part),
 it just might work.

Offline Linux_gene3

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2002, 06:58:24 AM »
I am starting to see myself drifting away from aces high into wwiionline.

Reasons why. ITS FUN!!!!!!!

I like aces high and i still play it, just lately i am getting sic and tied of flying around blowing up AC only. I like wwiionline because i can be infantry, Tank Commander, Also Hurrican fighter. Now i have seen that introducing some sort of ground force into aces high will do wonders for it. Because right now my attention is spent in wwiionline. Because you need air force, and ground forces working together.

My main reason mostly for starting to like wwiionline is because of the Plane sets. I am sic and tied of fighting between a Spitfire and a nik, that NEVER HAPPEN IN REAL LIFE. I want to fight 109s, and i want to kill panzers, none of this MA crap.

Some people say go into the CT, BUT NO ONE GOES THERE. its all a never ending furball of fighters running after each other. I just want somthink i can go, Ha i am infantry, lets go on a sniper mission. Then the next day compeltly somthink differnet. Thats were i think wwiionline will win over most Sim, because of its endless possiabiltys.

its just the way i am seeing Aces high right at the moment. and also I am waiting until 1.09 comes then i will make my mind up to stay or not.

Offline MANDOBLE

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2002, 08:59:06 AM »
Kweassa, agree with you about the ground war. But there is a big problem involved: bandwith.
All the ground war data should be updated into players FE in real time. This would be like doubling the number of online players with hundreds of AI ground units around the map.

Offline Linux_gene3

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2002, 05:16:37 PM »
Okay! this would be F**** cool.

Now lets say that HT devieds to place in a Citys and large citys somthink like wwiionline. How the AB need to be destoryed before the airport can be achived. This would sort of work, and mabe not.

Seeing that there is a ground war going on that includes Tanks, Inf and supplys being droped off. It should enable a player from the menu to select a unit within the ai. When he selects a Tanks for example he spawn right inside the tank and takes over the roll of the tank driver. This could be the same as every Army Unit on the ground. I really like the idea, it addes somthink differnet to aces high.

But still my main concurn is flying again AC that never really sow action against each other. EG, Spit V spit, Spit V P51, Spit V P47. ITs somthink when you have this combination you know when your F****  Spit V Nik + 190 + spit. Do you see were i am going with this.

Offline Kweassa

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The current Strat model, the game and realism - you may need a sandwich!
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2002, 12:30:28 AM »
..

 and our crusade for better bandwidth technology continues.

 Who knows? Technology is advancing fast :) Oneday we just might
 be able to play highly ground war affiliated AH Main Arena with
 fiber optics :)