Countering the BnZ defense

[Ack-Ack]

Here's a lecture written by an old AW pilot of long ago on countering BnZ defenses.  It's not game specific so the tactics talked about are applicable in AH or in any other flight sim.

For the link to Wlvrn's lecture, click here

The Nose-up Defense

I used to have a problem when I was but a wee BnZer. All my passes were met with headons when the fugger would pull up into me. SJ, one of the greatest pilots I've known, used to do this to me all the ****ing time. I hated it as it would gradually eat away my advantage as I could only pull up so many times and his Spitty could climb much faster then my FW. As I evolved my BnZ, I began to create (what I think) is a patented and original tactic. It's called the "Whoop-em-good-Wolvee" which in Swahili means "this ******* is a dead *******". I use it almost exclusively against these kinds of dickhead tangos. Basically, it's a reverse spiral climb (i.e. a spiral descend). The idea is to circle above the offending pencil-dicked numnuts at 0 ROC. That is, you'll be circling relatively above him, neither gaining nor loosing altitude. In doing this you are achieving 3 things.

1. You are making him climb to you. NOTE: Even if slowly, he is still loosing E trying to climb to you. If he decides not to climb by spiraling up beneath you and instead decides to climb in a strait line, drop on him and then zoom up again, thus forcing him to break turn. Make him circle underneath you as you spiral above him (normally what happens is the tango gets nervous about flying strait and instead opts to spiral climb his higher turn-radius aircraft underneath you hoping to sucker you into a turnfight)and gradually get him slow.

2. You are setting up an easy shot. NOTE: In spiraling you are basically choosing an angle to attack from. Keep in mind that from the bogie's view it is VERY hard to track you as you turn above him, especially since he is turning. The situation makes it worse as he is trying to keep you in an up or up-front view...extremely difficult to do when there is a continuously moving bogie above (even with views mapped to a stick and throttle it is very hard) and therefore the tango can loose sight of you, that is when you strike. What you'll find is that the cyclic paths of you and the bogie will make it very easy for you to pick and setup a shot of any angle (primarily a dive when you are above and in front of him will place you on his six when you are in guns range).

3. You keep your energy. NOTE: You will have control of the fight with altitude and a reserve of speed from your low-g turns above him. Make sure that those turns are level and low-g as to conserve E in case you fug up.

Now when he has climbed to within 1500 below you start to tighten your circle and setup that positioning you want. Next step, drop in on him and squeeze off the shot.

Why this works: The whole *idea* around advanced BnZin' is not to be predictable. Why does that nose up BnZ defense work? It works because HE KNOWS YOU'RE COMING! He knows how to time it so that you have no shot. You have to step to the next level and become severely unpredictable . Stagger your attacks, make a fake pass that yo-yo's with a throt cut back into him. Do everything you can to NOT REPEAT THE LAST ATTACK. If you become predictable, you become dead...he'll be able to whittle that advantage you have away. You must learn to steer away from traditional BnZing and begin to use tactics that are borderline E-fighting. You want to make it so that any reaction that he has is either going to be too late (due to your being able to get position when above him) or not at all (he looses sight of you, perhaps thinking that you're zooming when you are really chopping your throttle to turn right back to him).

Another, albeit more risky, setup is this. When in your dive and you know the dude wants to nose up to you, cut your throttle to 0 and hold the brake down (brake, flaps, gear...anything to slow you down) as soon as you start diving. 80% of the time when the bogie pulls up into you, he will misjudge the distance (because most use TIME between dives not the distance counter to measure closure...and those who do use the counter most of the time can't judge it well enough to defend 'gainst this) and wallow, wings flat, just about when you arrive. And as they used to say..."bang bang, ping ping O what a relief it is (/dead dip**** brought to you by the 33rd)". If he does time it right, you'll see it coming. Pull up into a HIGH YO-YO to gain again. I say hi yo-yo because he'll have his guns pointed at you and the last thing you want to do is give him an easy shot

Ack-Ack

[Ack-Ack]

The Break Turn

The Break turn is probably the most often used defenses against a BnZer who is coming down on an attack run. The idea is to move your slower moving aircraft out of the path of his dive forcing him to have to pull violently to correct his guns solution, which he cannot do due to the fact that he is moving so fast and the G-Forces prevent it. It is compacted by the fact that since the plane being attacked is slower, he can pull a tight turn that you will not be able to track without blacking out. All is not lost however, little grasshopper. It is possible (and a lot of fun) to suprise these folks when they make their break. Once you make a couple of passes and see that this guy is going to break every time, start to plan (note if the dude is breaking in a specific direction every time...it is a great benefit to you). On your next run aim your aircraft just right of his (or left if he is breaking right every time). Slow your aircraft down to about 300 knots. As soon as you see him make his turn (watch his wings dip), chop the throttle, hit the brake, pop flaps (if it's conducive to do so at whatever speed you're at). The idea being to get your aircraft down to its optimum turning speed. Most don't think you're going to slow the plane down. It's very easy to suprise pilots this way as they expect you to zoom. There is only one downside to this, and that is if the plane you are fighting is a better turner than you and you miss the shot entirely (and don't kill him) because now you're slower than you'd like to be and have blown some of your advantage. The idea is, however, to ping or kill him. If you ping him, chances are VERY great that he will split-s to get the **** outta dodge and avoid further damage. When you see him do this, zoom and start climbing again to secure your advantage (rule #1 when it comes to BnZ is "when the enemy goes DOWN you go UP").

Ack-Ack

[Ack-Ack]

The Split-S

Ahhhh, the split-s. God how I hate the noodlesuckers who do this (couldn't just stay still, could ya?). To counter this maneuver it takes good management of speed. When you see him flip over, also flip over and chop throttle (stay around 225 - 250 or so). Now you have two options. If you want to start hitting him right away, cut that throttle HARD and slowly (i.e. low G) dive after him. Catch him as he bottoms out of his split-s.

If you want to turnfight him and are willing to follow him to the deck, don't dive right when you see him dive. Instead, wait until you are over the spot he was when he dived, then follow him down...you want to stay in lag pursuit in order to stick with him. The key is to match his speed, DO NOT OVERSHOOT or you're dead.

Most bad guys won't expect you to follow through a split-s and won't realize it until you put a few lead goodies up their ass, su-prise su-prise su-prise. Be careful not to get sucked into a turnfight in this situation. Be ready to pull up and gain if the baddie decides to try and sucker you into fighting his style.

There are MANY other ways to counter the normal BnZ defense. One point you have on your side is that most people once they engage in defensive maneuvering, tend to not look at their attacker. When they do their break turn or split-s they will assume that you will zoom...assume is the key word here...and we both know what know what that makes an bellybutton of U and ME . Also, be prepared for the bogie that feigns a break turn and then revs and comes back into you (lead-lag turn). If this occurs, zoom up and establish position again.

If there is one thing I want you to take out of this little write up it is that when you BnZ...let me rephrase that...to be really SUCCESSFUL at BnZ, you must be unpredictable. You must know what the bogie's options are and be ready to counter them, know what you and the bogie are going to do three steps ahead of when it happens. Kick bellybutton and take names boys

Thus endith the Sermon...

Wlvrn

Ack-Ack

[Rutilant]

Good read! Makin me wanna get the new stick already (i'm nastolgic like that) and start playin again.. Never had much of a problem settin em up in 109 tho.. (they turn, or dive and run like heck.)  just had trouble with the 30mm ballistics.

[Lt. Fragg]

Thanks for posting that Ack Ack

I am starting to try out BnZ tactics (as I am mainly a turnfighter) and am slowly starting to understand the mechanics Those tips should help alot

One question, and it may sound stupid....

In the part where he mentions killing the speed when you're dropping down...is that even possible? I know the 47 can punch out flaps at a relatively hight speed yet most planes I try with BnZ flaps only deploy at lower speed. How can I acheive slower speed in a dive? (save chopping throttle, or doing what he says, using my gear which would snap off instantly )

[humble]

It's pretty easy to bleed off speed...either in a B&Z or angles fight. Obviously chopping the throttle is the 1st step, a hard e bleeding move...ex...as bogie pulls up into you you can yank nose up hard...then let plane simply fall off naturally...but one of the best and most effective is "cross controlling" plane. Use rudder to conteract oppisite control move. The stronger the rudder input the more pronounced the breaking effect. Two masters of this are Mathman in F6 and Lev in spit 5...but its also very effective as speed control in 109.

I dont fly 109 much but in CT this setup I'm flying G-2 "locked up" almost anytime I've got the nose down to keep speed build up down to a manageable level.

[Rutilant]

109G10 compresses at around 450.. Gets mushy at 400, but it has a monster climb rate so you don't have to worry about getting massive speed before going into a zoom, and you can almost always climb away when in danger

[humble]

Controlling that energy is really the key issue here, the 109 (any flavor) is not an easy plane to fly well...often you have to much smash or to little...often the key to getting a nice look in an E fight is keeping E build up down as you setup a shot.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Lt. Fragg


One question, and it may sound stupid....

In the part where he mentions killing the speed when you're dropping down...is that even possible? I know the 47 can punch out flaps at a relatively hight speed yet most planes I try with BnZ flaps only deploy at lower speed. How can I acheive slower speed in a dive? (save chopping throttle, or doing what he says, using my gear which would snap off instantly )

There are some planes that use their landing gear as a sort of a dive brake, with these type of planes you can lower your gear and use them to slow you down in the dive.  Since the P-38 isn't one of these planes, I instead just decrease my throttle and use opposite rudder, which increases the drag and slows me down enough and if I want to gain speed, I just let the rudders return to neutral and slam the throttle to full.  But remember, the key to successful BnZ and any other form of E fighting is to keep your relative E state higher than your target's, so you have to be careful that you don't bleed any unnecessary energy.


Ack-Ack

[Xjazz]

S! Ack-Ack

Very good hints.

[Montezuma]

Nose up defense doesn't really work in AH, no forward deflector shield like in AW.  In AH the lower guy might be able to force a HO but the guy coming down will get a much better shot.

As for circling over someone, 'fear works'.

[bfreek]

unless you learn to get hits at 700-1k shots you will just get annoyed at the tight turners.

Make false dive on target,
Ck his turn direction (usually left) dive again and fire high and left of his path. fire higher if he is low level and not so high if he still has alt to play with making semi flat turns.

[Snork]

Thanks for the good info.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by bfreek
unless you learn to get hits at 700-1k shots you will just get annoyed at the tight turners.

 

That's not true at all because of the excellent instantaneous turn rate of the P-38.  When I make my high speed passes and pull in tight to make the deflection shot, I'm usually within 400-500 yards before firing.  It all depends on how you line up for the shot.  From the other brief description you posted on how you make your passes, I can see why you have trouble and get frustrated.


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