Muslims about to get what they want.

[Tumor]

Originally posted by babek-
I personally dont think that Iran will attack a neighbor-country or Israel - they havent done this in the last 100 years.

You have absolutely no idea what your talking about.  Who do you think is behind certain entities like Hamas, Hizbullah, etc etc?  If thats not an attack on a neighbor what is?  

[~Caligula~]

What about US goverments support of the muhajadin and the contras.

As far as I know they were targeting military targets,not civilians.
That makes a differnce.



To the rest of You:
The most important duty someone owes to themselves,to their ancestors and to their nation is survival.
I don`t blame You for it,but You guys just don`t understand what it`s like to grow up listening to stories about how my grandmother was building concrete bunkers for the nazis as a slave in Vienna,and how only her and her cusin were the only survivors of her family.Than opening up a book about history and reading about slavery,invadors,pogroms,inquisition,death-camps..etc.4000 years of abuse.
All this did not happen to You.
You say that was the past,and We should just move on.
Right...would be nice,but what I see around isn`t so nice.
I see the whole arab world bent on killing jews,I see antisemitism rising in Europe.So what should make me belive that the evil that did the holocaust is gone and never coming back again?
This is not a fight for land or religion but for survival.
I say it once more:Jews will never let themselves to be in other nations mercy.They might get wiped out at the end,but it`ll be a hellova fight.

[Staga]

Yep and most likely in future Palestinians talk how their ancestors fought against Israel. So what ?

Face the facts: Israeli people have to learn how to live with Palestinians and vice versa. The route Sharon took doesn't lead anywhere.

[Tuomio]

Caligula, ive read that 20 million people were executed during Stalins dictatorship. Now THATS one helluva holocaust, but wheres all the paranoid russians?

[paintmaw]

All this roadkill over religion , what is it good for ? Other than a good reason to wipe out your nieghbor , I see no good coming from it         praise the lord and pass the ammunition

[babek-]

Originally posted by Tumor


You have absolutely no idea what your talking about.  Who do you think is behind certain entities like Hamas, Hizbullah, etc etc?  If thats not an attack on a neighbor what is?  

Just try to read the text again.

We discuss the fear of some that Iran will use its BALLISTIC MISSILES against a neighbor or Israel.

Not the low support of what they define freedomfighters but the use of high-level military hardware like jets, tanks or ballistic missiles.

The Hamas and the Hisbollah are for us from the West terrorists but the terrorist of the one side is the freedom fighter of the other.

The Mujjaheddin were terrorists for the Soviets during their occupation of Afghanistan while they were freedom fighters for the western nations - including the USA who delivered them weapons like the high-tech Stinger missiles.

The Taliban were also supported as freedom fighters by the pro-western Pakistan until the definition changed.

So - again: I dont fear the ballistic missiles of Iran.

Actually I fear more those of the non-axis-of evil-countries Pakistan and India who are playing with the fire...

[wsnpr]

As far as I know they were targeting military targets,not civilians.

~Caligula~,

The Contras usually attacked civillian, not military targets. Around 30,000 casualties in that war most civillian. Majority of the contra membership was made up of former National Guard/Military Police (brutal hencemen of the 'anti-democratic' Somoza regime.) CIA trained and funded in terror tactics. There were also members of the Contras that came from the northern area along the border with Honduras. Those were from the indiginous Miskiou Indians that really never were bothered by the Somoza regimes (going back to about '33) as the area was mountainous and of no real value to the Somozas.
Dern no more time....I'll try to continue if you wish....gotta go to work. The contras were terrorists, not the equivilent to our founding fathers as Reagan has quoted.

Regards,
wSNPR

[~Caligula~]

We discuss the fear of some that Iran will use its BALLISTIC MISSILES against a neighbor or Israel.

Not the low support of what they define freedomfighters but the use of high-level military hardware like jets, tanks or ballistic missiles.

The Hamas and the Hisbollah are for us from the West terrorists but the terrorist of the one side is the freedom fighter of the other.

And why do You think theysupport your "FREEDOM FIGHTERS"
and not go in a full scale conventional attack?
If You can`t figure it out I`ll tell you.
Because they know if they did,they`d lose again.
That`s why they`re developing weapons,so in the future they`ll have a better chance.
BTW what the diddly does it matter what the other side think of what terrorists are?They are terrorists....period.

Caligula, ive read that 20 million people were executed during Stalins dictatorship. Now THATS one helluva holocaust, but wheres all the paranoid russians?

Can You show me if there`s any kind of pattern in russian history,about things like that happening over and over again?

Face the facts: Israeli people have to learn how to live with Palestinians and vice versa. The route Sharon took doesn't lead anywhere.

Please tell me how would You learn to live with your neighbour if he was trying to murder You your family and friends.Would giving him the backyard solve it?

[~Caligula~]

The Contras usually attacked civillian, not military targets. Around 30,000 casualties in that war most civillian. Majority of the contra membership was made up of former National Guard/Military Police (brutal hencemen of the 'anti-democratic' Somoza regime.) CIA trained and funded in terror tactics. There were also members of the Contras that came from the northern area along the border with Honduras. Those were from the indiginous Miskiou Indians that really never were bothered by the Somoza regimes (going back to about '33) as the area was mountainous and of no real value to the Somozas.

I`m sorry,but I`m not sure where You trying to go with this.
You mean it`s ok for Iran to sponsor the Hamas and Hezbollah so they can go murder more kids,just because the US once upon time made a mistake by helping a bunch of bloodthirsty idiots?

[Staga]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~


Please tell me how would You learn to live with your neighbour if he was trying to murder You your family and friends.Would giving him the backyard solve it?

Well maybe they should get the fu_k out from the "backyard" they don't even have rights to be in.
Usually civilized people don't build settlements to another peoples land outside of the borders of their own country.

If Israeli people and palestinians can't learn to live together then they die together.

Time to bring up antisemitist card again eh ?

[~Caligula~]

So if that neghbour was shooting at your kids from that backyard,would that give You a good enough reason to go and do something about it?

[babek-]

I checked my neighbors and I am lucky to report that their nuclear ballistic missiles are not pointed at my house or my car

[Staga]

Caligula in that situation I would have two choices:
1) Kill that sob and wait if his relatives would come to blow my house to the hell or...
2) Call the cops and let them do their work.

If I would take the first choice I wouldn't cry if neighbors relatives would kick my ass.
Anyway I wouldn't build houses for my relatives to my neighbours backyard 'cause I know he would be little angry to me... If I would do it I would expect him to blow that house away or use a Caterpillar to move it down.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[wsnpr]

Originally posted by ~Caligula~
So if that neghbour was shooting at your kids from that backyard,would that give You a good enough reason to go and do something about it?

~Caligula~,
Let's take this further shall we? Let's say that you were kicked out of your house and told to leave your neighborhood. Some of your friends and family were killed in the process. You were not compensated in any way. You're telling us that
that you wouldn't fight back or that you wouldn't be angry?
It's all about cause and effect. It's really sad that you're missing that point.
I'll make some personal points about you that I feel to be true:
1) You truly love the idea that an independent nation called Israel exist within secure, safe borders.
2) Because of reason #1, Jews the world over can have a homeland where they can live in peace and security without having to worry about prejudice and hatred (which they've had to deal with for centuries.)
3) You are a compassionate individual as some of your posts show just how much you care.
You want to know what though? I also care about reasons 1 and 2 above. We just disagree on how the Israelis should go about it. I feel victimizing and killing others to further my own goals is wrong, because in doing so, I am creating more and more enemies interested in nothing more than eliminating me and my people. It's all about cause and effect. Always has been and always will be.
Regards

[-tronski-]

Those IRA dollars might be funded by individuals who sympatise with the Irish cause,but I doubt it`s a state level aid the US government is giving to a known terrorist organisation.
And nobody`s really worried about the US just launching missiles at countries,just because "We don`t like them".  

 

Thats a fairly simplistic view, however there is a merry-go-round of arguments about governmental support of various factions to support it's foreign policy, and the old cold war spheres of influence.

 

That is the point:they don`t want to be accepted by western society.They don`t want what You think is great about how You live.They want it all destroyed and rebuilt muslim style.

Should they need to be accepted by western standards?
The text book Islamic faith has guidelines that no one can be forced to follow Islam, however obviously a myriad of arguments are fought over the perversion of all religious tenets to serve various purposes, state and otherwise. Religion is truly the opium of the people.
I personally believe that Iran has no real interest at all in destroying this country.  

You guys are ready just like your grandparents were to sacrifice the jews before You reallize what You`re really dealing with.

 

Actually my grandfather joined up immediately after New Zealand declared war on Germany in 1939.
I wonder if Jews are grateful about his then possible ultimate sacrifice in their supposed unintentional liberation?

 Tronsky