Instantaneous turns

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Hi all- awhile ago there was a thread about these "miracle" turns people were seeing. I wasn't _quite_ sure what they meant until I met this guy in H2H. He was in a Yak and he kept getting an instant HO every time I manuevered with him. I have a film but no way to post it- is there anyone who can host this DL for me? Email me at  sasorrow@home.com  so i can send it to you.

When it gets posted look at the turn he makes after his merge with me with trails on. he has a LOT of smash in this turn so it wasn't like he ruddered over at the top of a zoom. and he is coming back from me after my yoyo very very quickly- if I hadn't allready fought him 2x he would have been guns on while I was still getting turned.
As it was I taught why HO is a game for losers  

[Sandman_SBM]

Depends on what's shooting in the HO... you go head on against a 20mm shooter, you deserve what you get.

[Kratzer]

I noticed this when fighting the Yak and especially the Nik.

So I finally flew a Nik, and I noticed that you could do what amounted to a 180 due to the amazing stall recovery of the Nik - you could extend and start a chandelle and then pull the stick hard, do half a spin and exit the spin going in the other direction with a bunch of speed.

odd, odd, odd...

[Spatula]

 

Originally posted by Kratzer:
I noticed this when fighting the Yak and especially the Nik.

So I finally flew a Nik, and I noticed that you could do what amounted to a 180 due to the amazing stall recovery of the Nik - you could extend and start a chandelle and then pull the stick hard, do half a spin and exit the spin going in the other direction with a bunch of speed.

odd, odd, odd...

Film it, and post it.

[Jekyll]

 

Originally posted by Kratzer:
I noticed this when fighting the Yak and especially the Nik.

So I finally flew a Nik, and I noticed that you could do what amounted to a 180 due to the amazing stall recovery of the Nik - you could extend and start a chandelle and then pull the stick hard, do half a spin and exit the spin going in the other direction with a bunch of speed.

odd, odd, odd...

Sounds like a snap roll 'rollaway' maneuver.  Here's how it works.

You have a con chasing you at your long 6.  You pull up into a high chandelle or YoYo.  At the peak of your climb, you snap roll opposite to your original break direction.  So, if you did your YoYo to the right, you snap roll to the left.

The trick is in holding the snap for exactly 180 degrees of turn, so you are now inverted.  Pull through and you'll be heading back on a reciprocal of your original course in no time flat, and will have 'seemed' to have just done a 180 in mid air.

------------------
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
Chapter 13, verse 11

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Thank you to all who replied to me- I sent it too Ripsnort and Lephturn and it should appear soon.

From what I saw and what I managed to film (last fight before he left) The manuever involved pulling into a zoom at high speed then doing a sort of hard rudder twist to flop yourself on your back and pull yourself upright simultaneously (sp?).

The only one I caught on film is the time he did it right after the merge when the film starts. However he repeated this several times previously in an F6F faster and with more control than the Yak- I don't think he knew the Yak well. In a Chog I think this would make for an immediate two circle fight if used in combat- any cannon birds best situation if your a good shot.

If anyone can help figure out how he pulled that one (maybe film a trainer showing) I would love to know!

[-towd_]

cant wait to see this one  

[Jekyll]

OK, here's a film of a Nik doing a snap roll rollaway and reversing back on its own track.  You'll see that the reversal is much quicker than could be accomplished merely by using roll and elevator.

Did it look anything like this ?

[Sorrow[S=A]]

I can't access that file, sorry  

Can you email it too me?

[mietla]

posting for Sorrow


wacky turn

[This message has been edited by mietla (edited 02-21-2001).]

[J_A_B]

Hmm.....I think I saw an F-15 do something like that once at the airshow....

J_A_B

[Dead Man Flying]

With all due respect, Sorrow, after looking at this film I don't see any wacky instant turns whatsoever.  In your first HO pass, you came right at the Yak who, after the two of you passed, dove and looped up at you.  Such a move seems entirely reasonable given the distance and time.

After the second pass, the two of you seperate almost 3k, at which point he does a low-G nosedown turn to point back at you.  This is also realistic given the time and distance.

-- Todd/DMF

[Sorrow[S=A]]

He only did it the first pass DMF, thats the one I got on film. Notice a few things: I did an immelman as or just after he passed me and maintained G through the loop to turn as fast as possible. Now with trails look at how he goes- after merge he does a low dive out to 2k or so- by this time I am vertical and moving towards being pointed towards him. He goes vertical then watch his trail- as it goes up suddenly it does a queer twist and he is pointed at me. It wasn't net lag- I saw it repeatedly in other planes he flew under chase situations. Like I mentioned, I regret not filming the times he did it better in the f6f. Still- if you look at his first reversal you should see what I mean.

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
He goes vertical then watch his trail- as it goes up suddenly it does a queer twist and he is pointed at me.

I just looked with trails on.  What he did was an Immel.  He dove 2k past you for speed, and then he pulled up hard and rolled right-side up at the top.  If you look at your trails, you'll see that you actually performed the same move complete with "queer twist" at the end to roll right-side up.  

-- Todd/DMF

[Jekyll]

 

Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
I can't access that file, sorry  

Can you email it too me?

Try again sorrow.. its there for download now.