Author Topic: Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey  (Read 2072 times)

Offline blitz

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2003, 02:33:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Again you seek to dodge the issue by blaming the US for the inability of the Security Council to act.

The IAEA has put this matter before the Security Council. You (I think) agree that Kim Jong Il with nukes is a problem for the entire world.

Now let's see how France, Germany, Russia and the rest of the SC deal with NK.

This is NOT a US problem; I think the US is reacting perfectly. We're still sending food but we're not discussing NK demands until they cease the reinstatement of the nuke program the IAEA has proscribed.

So, the US isn't creating this crisis; NK is. Now let's see what the SC does about it.

I am willing to wager that the answer to that is "nothing".


Get a clue Toad.

What i don't want is 1 country dictates who's to live and who's to die.

Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO.

We won't come together here. It's 2 totally differnt political opinions, nothin personal. You won't convince me and vice versa.


Regards Blitz



America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

Offline Hortlund

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2003, 02:38:23 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by blitz

Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO.


So you are only allowed to attack someone after they have attacked you?

How about this analogy. You tell me when it is ok for me to take out my gun and shoot the other one.

I am walking down the street.
I meet a man.
The man stops me.
The man tells me he hates me.
The man tells me he hates my family.
The man tells me he wants to kill me and kill my family.
The man puts his hand into his pocket.
The man pulls out a gun.
The man aims the gun at me.
The man starts to pull the trigger.

When, in your opinion is me using force against this man justified?

Offline Toad

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2003, 03:57:19 PM »
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous [/B][/QUOTE]

How about you tell me what's to stop Kim Jong Il from deciding who's to live and who's to die in South Korea?

Or are you going to trot out some laughable inanity like South Korea is in more danger from the US than NK?

Tell me this:

Assume the UN Security Council, despite the urging of the IAEA to "do something" fails to act because.. let's say.. oh.. France, Germany and Russia all oppose action.

Then a starving NK lobs a nuke into Seoul and Tokyo to prove their manliness and seriousness in demanding more fee food.

How will you feel about your "Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO" policy then?

Because count on this. The UN SC won't do anything about NK and their nukes.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline X2Lee

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #93 on: March 02, 2003, 05:25:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Hahahahaha ... Americans are going to stop buying Merc's and Bimmer's and Porsche's because of this? ... Yeah right!

Which automaker makes the most money? ... Porsche. Who's number two? ... BMW. Where do you all think they're making the most money? ... The US of A.

Prolly going to cost you even more now, but you'll keep buying them, oh yes you will, because you can't make a single car that can compete in quality, performance and style.

If Iraq attacks the US we will all stand by your side, like we did with regard to Afghanistan, but until then you're on you're own ... with as many "allies" you can buy or blackmail.

Edit: ... and nutjob fascists like Judge Hortlund here of course.



Ill be willing to bet that imports wont sell as well in America in the next 2 years if relations dont improve.
I would hesitate before I bought anything German now, whereas I have owned german automobiles before.
I surely wont buy anything French already.

I am sure I am the only American that feels this way so far.

Pffft yall dont need our moneys anyway.

And if Iraq attacks us I would rather yall sleep in.
I dont want any German or French help anymore. I am a fickle person I guess, I dont like yall much anymore.

I am sure I am the only one tho

Offline X2Lee

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #94 on: March 02, 2003, 05:30:34 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
i assure you.. if the propoganda/media machine and the dreaded spinmeisters get ahold of the concept that french and german WMD equipment is being used by iraqi's to kill americans... your toejam will be thoroughly Un-PC to own or use here in a matter of WEEKS.
 Count On It.


Well dang Hang you said it so well.
They dont get it.
We buy out of pity for you guys

Offline T0J0

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #95 on: March 02, 2003, 09:46:47 PM »
Blitz
 From one German to another.....STFU you are getting on my nerves!!!
 I feel better now:)
Carry on
T0J0

Offline Hangtime

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #96 on: March 02, 2003, 10:04:29 PM »
yah.. our efforts in WWII and WWI were akin to changing the water level of the dead sea by peeing in it.

First time in my life I've considered putting up that damn 'rolleyes' icon.

Straffo.. Blitz.. I don't hate you. You'll know when my displeasure with the french and their apologist lackeys turns to hate.

In short, don't hate the French... I merely despise them. I disliked the french prior to this.. but it was only a mild dislike, with a penchant for poking fun at their sad modern attempts at greatness despoiled by sharp contests with brighter more determined adversarys.

Now I despise them for actively seeking to preserve saddams reign.

You should endeavor to hold the line at 'despise'. You don't wanna think about what comes your way when we change that to 'hate'.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Toad

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2003, 10:08:53 PM »
Do a little reading on the impact of fresh and eager troops on the Germans. See what you think then.

We all know what French morale was by then about zero. Note the widespread mutiny after the Nivelle Offensive,which was a virtually unmitigated disaster for the French Army in April of 1917. Petain agreed not to commit his forces to offensive operations thenceforward.

At the Marne, US forces were credited with stopping the German advance.

Americans took the offensive at St. Mihel, a lesson in combined arms operations.

Americans are credited with the breakthrough at the Meuse, gaining as much as five miles a day in November. Do you think this offensive had anything to do with the German's deciding to give it up?

 

As for the often heard "The USA was VERY reluctant to get involved in the European war" you are absolutely correct. I wonder why? Eh? Did you ever read Washington's Farewell Address?

Well, I assure you many if not most Americans had after WW1 and prior to WW2. I'm sure you know the US Congress passed the Neutrality Act forbidding the supply of arms to belligerents in the event of war in April of 1935. No dummies they. That was LONG before any hostilities broke out in Europe and only about 2 years after Hitler came to power. So, US reluctance to become involved in any European war was WELL KNOWN to European countries long before they started shooting at each other. To expect us to jump right in once the Euros lost control..... through absolutely no fault of ours..... is a bit much, I think. Not to mention illegal, considering the Neutrality Act.

Your optimistic contention that the Soviets would respect former national borders is probably not shared by those countries that had Soviet troops on their soil when the war ended.

The point you miss in the Cold War is the effect of many thousands of US troops nose to nose with the Soviet armies. It's the same effect US troops have in Korea right now. They kept things from getting out of hand just by being there. Had the balloon gone up, it would have been a major disaster for the world. But, IMO, the presence of US troops was a key factor in keeping the balloon on a tether.

Final note: I doubt there is any Euro government that doesn't have irrefutable information that Saddam has WMD and is also a murderous dictator that has oppressed and killed his own people.

We've clearly taken the lead on removing him for those reasons and what we perceive as a threat to ourselves.

Now, we would think that given those two realities, our "friends" would give us the benefit of the doubt on this one. We're not asking anyone else to do the fighting; we're not begging for French, Russian or German troops. We merely want UN support and Security Council sanction.

Apparently that is too much to ask of someof our "friends". Perhaps we've learned something about the true meaning of friendship here as well.

As to the boycott..... I doubt it will be very organized or very effective. But I'll wager there is some drop in sales with respect to products of those countries.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2003, 10:11:11 PM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline blitz

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Oh,Oh, poor Mr. Rumbsfeld -> Turkey
« Reply #98 on: March 04, 2003, 04:26:13 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
yah.. our efforts in WWII and WWI were akin to changing the water level of the dead sea by peeing in it.

First time in my life I've considered putting up that damn 'rolleyes' icon.

Straffo.. Blitz.. I don't hate you. You'll know when my displeasure with the french and their apologist lackeys turns to hate.

In short, don't hate the French... I merely despise them. I disliked the french prior to this.. but it was only a mild dislike, with a penchant for poking fun at their sad modern attempts at greatness despoiled by sharp contests with brighter more determined adversarys.

Now I despise them for actively seeking to preserve saddams reign.

You should endeavor to hold the line at 'despise'. You don't wanna think about what comes your way when we change that to 'hate'.



You really hate us.


Regards Blitz




America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous

Offline Toad

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Maybe you missed this Blitz
« Reply #99 on: March 04, 2003, 04:49:55 PM »
Quote
America is threatened by Iraq in no way, it's just plain ridiculous


How about you tell me what's to stop Kim Jong Il from deciding who's to live and who's to die in South Korea?

Or are you going to trot out some laughable inanity like South Korea is in more danger from the US than NK?

Tell me this:

Assume the UN Security Council, despite the urging of the IAEA to "do something" fails to act because.. let's say.. oh.. France, Germany and Russia all oppose action.

Then a starving NK lobs a nuke into Seoul and Tokyo to prove their manliness and seriousness in demanding more fee food.

How will you feel about your "Selfdefence YES, pre-emtive strikes NO" policy then?

Thanks for your insight, in advance.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!