P-38 turning radius

[DukeMskt]

The P-38 L would,in the hands or a pilot like Dick Bong, Thomas McGuire or Tommy lynch,would turn inside a zero, for 1 and 1/2 turns. In the Pacific,That was usually enough to end the fight.
It only stands to reason that the geman planes had a bigger turning radius depending on the speed of entry into the turn. Remember, you could use dynamic thrust differential with a P-38. Tomas MaGuire "bent"
5 (five)P-38's in his career so badly they were used for scrap when he was done with them. DukeMskt, Musketeer Escadrille.

[DiabloTX]

Interesting info.  I wonder if there are any photos of the bent 38's out there?

[ergRTC]

Duke what was the initial speed?  I have noticed you can do this easily, but that is only on entering the turn at around 320 with the zero.  Major Gs of course, thus the bending I bet.

[DukeMskt]

The Zero could turn on a dime(with a pilot like Saki driving) at BELOW 100 MPH. The most succesful P 38 (tight) turns were at the magic numbers for almost all dogfighters of the day,175 to 225, because of wing loading, P factor(the P-38 didnt have this problem), aircraft trim, engine time etc. With the likes of Tommy lynch at the controls of a P-38, he could drop the magic numbers some, but no one can cheat the laws of psyisics. Some pilots who flew with them said lynch, Bong and McGuire "Bent" them from time to time. All things being equal,
the L was a match and better for any airplane at 225 MPH and up till jets came along. the classic P-38 gambit for "ordinary" pilots
(LOL!! who in hell can be ordinary in a Lightning?) was to come in from hi and behind a formation of bombers or fighters, and dive at 5-7 second intervals, make the pass and zoom back out of range. it was very effective on ALL the japanese planes of the day. Ok, someone will ask about dive speed. The A6M2,3 and 4 were limeted to 340 MPH MAX. The later zeros(-5 and up to the last one, the-8) could  go aroung 100 miles an hour faster FOR SHORT PERIODS. The early P-38's were placarded against the split S and any  dive angles past 9 degrees. From the D thru the F, until the "Dive flaps" were retofitted, you were only allowed to B&Z at very shallow angles, but 380 mph was common.Since the George, the Hamp, and others don't enter into this, tactics for them dont matter, but are intresting as well. If you want more information, I can suggest some light reading on the subject...but I gots to go for now...DukeMskt, Musketeer Escadrille

[Puke]

My guess is that the P-38 cannot generate the G forces needed to bend the airframe at normal maneuvering speeds but rather at the higher speeds.  

A PAC P-38 pilot I met once stated that they NEVER turned tightly because that slowed you down and that meant you are now vulnerable.  Speed was life and it wasn't sacraficed easily.  1 to 1-1/2 turns would really eat up the speed.

Just throwing that out there.  (BTW, this guy also told me he could make "box turns" on the Spitfire and keep up/win...that is, with the 38's that had the boosted controls or something like that which I forget now, being that I'm not a 38 afficianodo.)

[DukeMskt]

From the "J" model on, the aleron controls were boosted, creating a hight roll rate at higher than normal speeds. And yes,
Tom MaGuire would "torque" a 38 at as high as 350 mph. For you slide rule types, this means SUSTAINED G loads of +7...No Japanese plane could do that, even if a pilot could. The later"J" and "L" model P-38 had Allison V-1710- 123 and 124 engines rates at approx. 1600-1700 hp each at military over boost(limit 1 min)
after which time it was a manditory engine change. During the war, the lighting was the most versitile plane in the USAAF inventory, tho the P-51 phased the lightning out in europe as a primary escort fighter by early 1944. it soildered on in all theaters till the end of the war, however. For a plane designed in the 30's
and originally was thought of as a bomber interceptor, it did very well indeed....