Author Topic: Defense of Wake  (Read 588 times)

Offline Arlo

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Defense of Wake
« on: October 13, 2003, 01:04:27 AM »

Offline artik

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2003, 02:23:46 AM »
Looks interesting. Could be very good scenario. But.......
Don't we have too much pacific theatre?

The last 4 scenarios I was invlovled Midway, Nieman, Gudalcanal, Okinawa. 3 of 4 are Pacific theatre - I'm not talking it is not interesting, but........ too many Zerros :) . Isn't it?

Maybe like snapshorts or CAP?
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Offline Arlo

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2003, 07:53:01 AM »
Luck of the draw. Most scenarios designed to date are non-Pacific in origin. But I wasn't neccesarily saying "scenario." Hence ... discuss. This just happens to be something that:

1: We have the planes for ... no subbing needed.

2: I haven't seen tried yet.

As far as too many Japanese planes are concerned .... could be. But that's the challenge of it. Picture it set up as a defense against a cruiser taskforce assault with two or four Carrier task forces rushing to help one side or the other. Also picture it being run first as the defense of Wake then again as the liberation of it. A double sided challenge that way.

Offline rshubert

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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2003, 03:58:32 PM »
There is such good information about the positions on Wake that there should be no problem siting the 5-inch guns, and the LVTA5 can do duty for the 3-inchers easily.

I would suggest airstart spawn for the Japanese bomber formations from Roi, and put them about 2 sectors away from the island.  There should be a full set, across a 2 sector front, so the buffs have some element of surprise as to ingress direction.

DD and CA fleets, no problem.  

This would be a good map to start on as a beginner, since there just ain't much to it...

I could start on it after the Kadesh scenario is over.



shubie

Offline 68falcon

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2003, 10:51:43 AM »
If not scenario ie Kadesh Okinowa and the like, how about Friday night TOD I think it will go over big.


Shubie if you want help let me know
« Last Edit: October 21, 2003, 11:01:15 AM by 68falcon »
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Offline Soulyss

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2003, 11:17:31 AM »
I was just thinking that a Wake scenario would be interesting if you gave the IJN the same number of days to capture the island as they did historically and failing that the U.S. reinforcements arrive and the battle gets really interesting, but now I seem to recall somthing about the U.S. cv's turned back from their mission to reinforce wake so nm. :)
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Offline Arlo

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2003, 12:34:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Soulyss
but now I seem to recall somthing about the U.S. cv's turned back from their mission to reinforce wake so nm. :)


By December 21, eleven days after the Wake Island Marines had repelled the first assault on the atoll, Fletcher and Saratoga were still 600 miles from Wake. The Japanese were much closer, and in much greater force. A day earlier, Admiral Kajioka had sortied from Kwajalein with a second assault force, this time reinforced with four heavy cruisers. In the north, the carriers Soryu and Hiryu were detached from the Pearl Harbor strike force, their planes pouncing on Wake on December 21. Wake's last two Marine Wildcats scrambled into the air, and though badly outnumbered managed to down a Zero before being forced down themselves. But Wake was now bereft of air defense, and the promised relief mission nowhere in sight: in fact, at the time of the raid, Fletcher's force was refueling and, due to heavy seas, sailing away from Wake.

On receiving word of the carrier-based raid, Pye's resolve began to weaken. Fearing that Saratoga and Lexington were sailing into a trap, and not knowing the disposition of Japan's carriers, he ordered both task forces not to approach closer than 200 miles to Wake. Tangier, instead of landing reinforcements and supplies on Wake, was ordered to evacuate the atoll. The same day, however, Pye also lifted restrictions on Lexington's and Enterprise's operating areas, in hopes they could more effectively support Fletcher.

But, it was too little, too late. Under cover of night, Kajioka's force had approached close to the island, and before daybreak on the 23rd commenced landing the 1000-strong Maizuru 2nd Special Naval Landing Force. On Wilkes island, 70 Marines, armed with little more than vintage 1903 Springfield bolt-action rifles and hand grenades, set one transport on fire, and trapped the landing Japanese on the beach. Four hours later, that landing had been defeated, but on Wake island, two hundred Marines faced hundreds of Imperial Marines. The Marine commander, Major James Devereux, radioed his superiors in Hawaii: "ENEMY ON ISLAND ISSUE IN DOUBT". (Not quite two years later, the last three words would return to chill Nimitz and his command, when they were radioed from the beaches of Tarawa.)

The Pacific command's response left Devereux with few options. The nearest American carrier, Fletcher's Saratoga, was still a day away. Tangier, the relief ship, was even further off. A half hour later, Devereux surrendered Wake. At nearly the same time, Pye, reasoning that "Wake is a liability" ordered the relief forces to turn back.

The Consequences

The fall of Wake was a tremendous blow to American morale, not to mention that of the Navy's. When Pye's orders to withdraw reached Saratoga, an enraged Fletcher finally had to leave the bridge, where the talk had grown "mutinous". Aboard Enterprise, the crew struggled through two somber Christmas Eves (due to crossing the International Date Line), as men contemplated the fate of the Marine airmen they'd delivered to Wake just a few weeks before. What made the loss more bitter was the perception - perhaps accurate - that Wake's loss was unnecessary.

Holding Wake indefinitely may have been untenable, due to the land- and carrier-based airpower Japan could bring to bear. What seems more likely is that a more vigorous and concerted effort on the U.S. Navy's part could have saved the Marines and civilians on Wake. However, not possessing the benefit of hindsight, Pye could not justify risking his precious carriers - the only effective Navy surface forces in the Pacific - on a relief mission, in the face of possibly overwhelming enemy forces. Years after the war, the Marine commander James Devereux seemed to concur with Pye's decision: "I think it was wise ... to pull back."

http://www.cv6.org/1941/wake/wake_2.htm

But alternate reality sometimes allows for other options to be persued.

I pictured a defense consisting of several shore batts with overlapping fields of fire, a shore based squadron of Wildcats, some small GVs, a Japanese cruiser assault force, inbound bombers and two opposing carrier task groups of approximately equal size rushing to support their respective sides.

I also pictured the setup being reversed afterwards to reflect the recapture of Wake.

Just exploring an avenue that may be doable that I haven't seen brought up before.

Offline jordi

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2003, 01:13:32 PM »
Mmmmmmmmm - A Carrier / Surface fleet battle.

Not sure how a land battle would go.

Want me to see if a SM Terrain guy wants to look into it ?
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Offline rshubert

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2003, 02:58:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by jordi
Mmmmmmmmm - A Carrier / Surface fleet battle.

Not sure how a land battle would go.

Want me to see if a SM Terrain guy wants to look into it ?


You almost have to think of the island as an unsinkable--but capturable--aircraft carrier.  There won't be much of a land battle, since we don't model troops very well in AH.

If none of the terrain guys wants to handle it, I would like to try.  The terrain editor doesn't look that bad, to me.  And this would be a small terrain from a basing standpoint, since there is really only the one island in play.  As I stated above, the Marshalls can be easily modelled by air spawns.



shubie

Offline Batz

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Defense of Wake
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2003, 12:28:20 AM »
Quote
Most scenarios designed to date are non-Pacific in origin


Ah scenarios

1. Afrika Korp
2. Hostile Shores
3. Big Week
4. Sicily
5. Battle of Britain
6. Midway
7. Niemen
8. Guadalcanal
9. Okinawa
10. Kadesh
11. Battle of the Ruhr (Or Ruhr Valley)
12. Bridgehead Kurland

3 of 12 were Pac. Theres room for more but unfortunately the planeset is limited. Coral Sea would be good but I am not sure it would make an event. Much like Wake. Maybe combining several different aspects of Early pac into 1 event. ie Frame 1: Pearl harbor, Frame 2: Wake Island, Frame 3: Coral Sea and maybe a Brit vrs Japan for frame 4:

Quote
To prevent any interference with their ground assualt in Burma, Japanese naval units began to move on strength into the Indian Ocean.On March 23rd, they captured the Andaman Islands in order to protect a convoy route from Singapore to Rangoon.Then, two days later, Admiral Nagumo and his First Air Fleet moved into the Indian Ocean.Five carriers, accompanied by four fast battleships, and several crusiers and destroyers.Their mission was to strike the British naval bases in Ceylon and to destroy any British warships and merchant vessel they could find.

By this time, the British had increased their naval stregth in the Indian Ocean to a fleet of three carriers and five battleships, but four of these battleships were old and slow.The commander of this fleet was Vice Admiral Sir James Somerville.Learning of Nagumo's approach, Somerville sailed southeastward to meet him.Considering the strength of the Japanese, it was probably fortunate that the British didn't find them.The two battle fleets passed each other several hundred miles apart and scouting on both sides was poor (The British Fairey Walrus had a range of only 356 miles, while the Japanese Aichi E13A had a range of 1265 miles).So, Somerville returned to the Addu Atoll to refuel.Nagumo's carriers began to raid up he Indian coast and Ceylon with devestating effect.


Somerville now realized that his four old battleships would just be sitting ducks to the Japanese, so he sent them back to Madagascar.With his three carriers and the one remaining battleship, he went looking for Nagumo, in an attempt to harass his force while trying to avoid a major battle.What followed was a week of fast and furious action between the Nihon Kaigun and the Royal Navy.Japanese Aichi D3A's sank the light carrier H.M.S. Hermes, the crusiers H.M.S. Dorsetshire and H.M.S. Exeter, the destroyer H.M.S. Express and several merchant ships, with only slight damage to the Kido Butai (Japanese Carrier Force).But, even though they inflicted heavy damage to Ceylon, the Royal Air Force kept up stiff resistence and destroyed many Japanese aircraft.So, Nagumo left the Indian Ocean to rebuild his depleted air strength in the Pacific.


With Nagumo in the area, and the loss of so many ships, Somerville desided to retreat to the east coast of Africa with his remaining forces.


Any way you get the picture. Instead of trying to get 4 frames out of any 1 set up you take on many of the smaller actions of the early pacific and combine it into 1 overall Scenario.

We have a Coral Sea map, Nuttz finished a pearl harbor map.