Author Topic: Airshow question (Read 475 times)

SunTracker · « **on:** June 27, 2004, 10:48:59 AM »

Why do F-16s, F-15s, Fa-18s, and other U.S. jets only perform for about 5 minutes at airshows? I'm really quite curious to the answer for this.

I went to an airshow yesterday on the Ohio River. While the F-16 there only flew for about 5 minutes, he got LOW over the water. Theres no way he was above the 1500 feet altitude limit. At one point, while sitting high on the river bank, it seemed like I was level with the cockpit of the F-16 as he did a flyby.

Chairboy · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:05:32 AM »

Because "Rock me like a hurricane" by Scorpions is only 4:13 long.

Sandman · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:17:52 AM »

I'm thinking fuel. They fly airshows and show off the capability, but they consume a lot of fuel doing so.

SunTracker · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:23:06 AM »

Roger Sandman. Does the city hosting the airshow have to pay for the fuel, or does the USAF?

I read somewhere that F-14s cost around 1 million dollars per flight during exercises. I think this figure refers to maintenance and fuel.

Dago · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:31:00 AM »

1500 ft limit?

The Air Force reports to the Air Force, not the FAA. Air Force Pilots don't even have an FAA pilots license.

Besides, it's common for the FAA to give waviers to airshow performers who have demonstrated the ability to perform lower. Ever see a ribbon cutting done at an airshow? Those aren't 1500 ft poles they use.

A 5 minute show is about enough for a pilot in a high performance jet. For one thing, reefing through manuevers with the G load is fatiguing, and another, there isn't all that much they can show you down low anyway.

Just be glad you can see them perform at all.

dago

Sandman · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:43:37 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker
Roger Sandman. Does the city hosting the airshow have to pay for the fuel, or does the USAF?

I read somewhere that F-14s cost around 1 million dollars per flight during exercises. I think this figure refers to maintenance and fuel.

I doubt if it's that high. Do the math... 16,200 pounds of fuel (internal) is roughly 9,720 gallons (I think)... At the ridiculous price of $5 a gallon... that's $48K.

SunTracker · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:49:09 AM »

On an interesting note, the F-16 at the airshow outturned the P-51 there. The F-16 was doing complete circles within the width of the river. I kept expecting the 51 to spin out whenever he tried to turn sharply. Anyone remembering seeing the Wings show that compared P-51s and F-16s?

Those pilots are in pretty good shape Dago. I'm sure the crowd would rather see an F-16 do high speed passes rather some cessena with a smoke system flop around.

storch · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:50:18 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sandman
I doubt if it's that high. Do the math... 16,200 pounds of fuel (internal) is roughly 9,720 gallons (I think)... At the ridiculous price of $5 a gallon... that's $48K.

The gubment pays around $.65 per gallon currently. Yes I believe the promoter has to fuel up the birds.

SunTracker · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:54:50 AM »

Yeah, i was way off. Well I guess if an F-14 shot an AIM-45 it would cost a million a flight.

Quote

n today's defense budget-$267 billion for fiscal year 2000-such figures are insignificant, especially compared to the costs of traditional training. These examples are provided by the National Training Systems Association (NTSA):

* Flying an F-16 fighter costs an estimated $5,000 an hour,

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=113

Sandman · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:57:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SunTracker
Yeah, i was way off. Well I guess if an F-14 shot an AIM-45 it would cost a million a flight.
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=113

AIM-54 Phoenix?

SunTracker · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2004, 12:11:54 PM »

Yeah, Aim54.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2004, 01:34:28 PM »

I'll check one of our birds after the airshow in October to see exactly how much fuel they burned. They will consume alot of fuel due to the fact they hit burner alot during the show. Most of the time their flight times are limited due to airshow schedules not necessarily fuel limitations.

RTR · « **Reply #12 on:** June 27, 2004, 08:45:59 PM »

16,200 lbs of fuel is approximately 2300 US gallons.

Not sure what an F14 burns per hour per engine. (but I imagine it is a considerable amount)

However, an F18 burns about 3,000lbs per hour, per engine. (not including any afterburner)
So, an F18, say, is burning about 860 US gallons per hour. ( I use 7 lbs per US Gal when I do my fuel calcs when I fly turbine).

**Your gas mileage may vary** hehe.

As for the short duration of the actual show, one of the reasons is that he will have been flying for a while already before he enters the stage area.

Slots are timed pretty closely, so he will have launched prior to his show, and will be orbiting away from the field waiting for his turn.

We used to launch our showbird (CF-18) with only 6,000 lbs of fuel on board. This gave him enough time to get airborne, orbit away from the field, re-enter and perform his show and land.

6,000 lbs was the number we used as it gave him the time he needed, and it was a pretty light fuel load which allowed a better show.

Cheers,

RTR

Gunslinger · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2004, 10:13:42 PM »

Dont forget the mait. costs. For every hour of flight in an airplane there is a specific cost for mait for it.

example....recently we had to do a 900 hour major phase on a T-38. just our system alone took at least 60 man hours to complete and that's just one system on a jet. Also that's just one inspection. I know w/ F15 engines (or maybe F16 cobra412 can probably confirm this) there is a major inspection done on them after so many engine starts....I think its like 45 or 60.

I would have to agree that it is airshow schedule that dictates flight times.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2004, 11:58:10 PM »

You have borescopes that have to be done on the engines after so many hours. Normally as far as I can tell they only need major work if something is found during the borescopes. Majority of the time the blades can be blended and not have any problems. Just depends on what they find.

Author Topic: Airshow question (Read 475 times)

storch