P51D Lessons Learned

[Happy1]

Greetings  

Lessons learned in a P51D is to NEVER turn fite a Spit14 even though the turn rate may be the same as this doesn't mean u turn tighter.

Even though the 51 is turning faster it is also travelling faster meaning it has a larger turn radius which is bad in a turning fite

Dropping(chopping) throttle to out turn a spit14 is the worst thing to do as ur (P51) turn rate suffers greatly even though u
dropped a cple of clicks of flaps.

Best way to fight in a P51 is to BnZ, unless u r WldThing (He flies
the 51 like a spit )  Yes it's boring, but at least u'll stay alive., or
fly w/a wingman, lure the nme away, weave back & forth so they
will think they are going to catch up & have ur wingman drop down on them from above.  Good combo P51 w/P38 as wingman.

Advice, suggestions, comments graciously accepted, thx.

Happy1  

[RTR]

Hmmm.... I disagree Happy1.

I find that with the pony a notch or 2 (at most) of flaps does wonders. Although I think against a SpitV you shouldn't be trying to turn with him, I have fought spitIX's and XIV's succesfully.

Just as a matter of curiosity, what altitude and circumstance did you come to this conclusion at?  Lots of variables to consider.

Rather than get into a turning slugfest, I generally try to fly the angles, a little geometry goes a long way hehe.

Cheers,
RTR

[empty]

I'd say I disagree with this, for myself.  I fly the P51D almost exclusively, I'd say it is a really great all-round performer.

The fight against the Spit14 (or any plane with better thrust to weight and a lower stall speed) shouldn't be played to the spit14's strenghts.  P51s climb faster, the spit14 maybe the exception, the P51 rolls better when fast.  The spits all have problems with roll-rate over 300mph.  The P51 has better guns for snap-shots, something which needs to be mastered when angle-fighting a P51.  Nothing beats breaking something important to equalize the fight.

Comparing the P51 to the Spit14 is rough, I don't see that many Spit14s in the MA to worry about them.  A 109G is a tough opponent if its flown well, spits have never been a problem but there are a lot of them.  A tough perk plane to deal with while flying a P51 is the Tempest, I see a lot more of these.

The trick to the P51 is knowing what its strengths are compared to the bogey then knowing how to use them.

The la7 under 18K and 109G over 20K are about the only planes I worry about, especially if they is close to my e-state.  I have better luck with them if they have the energy.

That's why I tell my new guys to grab a ride they like and fly it into everything.  Nothing teaches like doing it.


The P51 in a turn fight is not something I'd recommend for the beginner but if you're going to fly it you'd better know how it handles at all speeds.  You'd also need a good idea of ACM.  I've seen a lot of comments about ACM in the MA being non-existant.

If you want to really see what a P51 can do (and will leaving you crying BS!) fly against ManeTMP or Manx P51 to P51.  These are guys that have obviously explored all regions of the P51s flight model and know how to use it.

[lasersailor184]

Hmm, I don't know about you, but I can down 109's and 190's easily in P51b's.  But i'm not that good (yet), so maybe I'm just doing something right.

[empty]

Problem with 109s is when you catch one that has a good driver in it.  If you press the attack and fail to finish him or, if you don't press the attack, it can and usually does, come back to bite you.

A 109G can reach an energy parity very quickly if its flown well, it has an incredable thrust to weight and it is a small airplane(harder to hit).  It turns very well and recovers its energy quickly.

If your flying the 109 and you take advantage of the P51 extending off, you can become co-alt with him very quick.  If the P51 driver doesn't see what is happening soon enough to disengage while he still has an advantage the 109G can catch him.  You have to be careful letting the 109 get too close, it will out accelerate you and has an initial advantage in the dive.

[Happy1]

In paragraph 3, I've made a mistake which I'm correcting, the para. should state:

"Dropping (chopping) throttle to out turn a Spit14 is the worst
thing to do as ur turn rate suffers greatly.  However, if done properly it allows u to slow down to the point where u can drop ur flaps & TIGHTEN ur turn circle."

TY for bringing this glaring error to my attention  

Happy1  

[WldThing]

Originally posted by Happy1
"Dropping (chopping) throttle to out turn a Spit14 is the worst
thing to do as ur turn rate suffers greatly.  However, if done properly it allows u to slow down to the point where u can drop ur flaps & TIGHTEN ur turn circle."

 

In a purely Turning (Flat Circle Fight) you want to have as much speed available as you can,  use flaps,  but i never chop throttle.  Your trying to get ahead of the con with your gunsight,  slowing down you wont have the advantage.  Now when we come down to a stall fight that includes barrel rolls etc.. THEN i work my throttle ALOT to stay behind the con,  to not overshoot.  I cant say i have encountered more than 3-4 Spit 14s in my AH career,  but like most "Spits" i will turn with angles,   which gives an illusion im turning my P-51 against your spit .  

If im lower than the Spit 14,  and i know he can out turn me,  the only thing i know that works in my situation is to get the Spit 14 to stall fight with me..  I will do my best to make him overshoot and eventually get a shot.

[gofaster]

Run from Yaks.

This message brought to you by the Brotherhood of Yak Pilots, a non-denominational fellowship of Aces High Yak-9 pilots, Local 347.

[Adogg]

...thanks GoFaster for your wonderful Yak Evangelism ... I've tried it out a couple of times and had great fun.