Author Topic: The P-38L and the ETO...  (Read 680 times)

Offline 1K3

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« on: October 02, 2004, 12:37:25 AM »
Did the '38-L vaqriant seen action against the 190s and 109s defending the Reich?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2004, 12:44:18 AM by 1K3 »

Offline Guppy35

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2004, 12:59:29 AM »
Absolutely.  Keep in mind there were a couple of Air Forces working their way into Germany from the south as well.

15th AF had 3 P38 Groups that were in action from 42 on.  This image is a 1st FG P38L-1

1st FG claimed 440 kills in air combat.  82nd claimed 554.  Those match up well with the air combat claims of any of the other groups operating from England or in the MTO against the Luftwaffe.

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Offline Krusty

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2004, 04:50:07 PM »
Don't confuse the mediterranian with the european theaters.

Offline Widewing

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2004, 05:58:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Don't confuse the mediterranian with the european theaters.


The answer is yes. Some P-38L-1-LOs did reach the 20th FG before they switched to the P-51. 9th AF P-38Ls fought the Luftwaffe in the ETO right up until the surrender.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Guppy35

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2004, 11:27:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Krusty
Don't confuse the mediterranian with the european theaters.


He's asking about 38s vs the Luftwaffe.  Can't forget that the 15th AF 38s were over the Riech as well.

Keeping it just ETO doesn't answer the question.  I can't believe you'd  be suggesting that the LW fighter pilots fighting in the MTO were inferior to other LW fighter drivers?

image is a 9th AF, 474th FG P38L winter of 44/45 on the continent.

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Offline SunTracker

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2004, 04:18:46 AM »
In general, P38s did below average vs the Luftwaffe in the ETO due to range problems.  Pilots were using very inefficient engine settings causing range to be drastically reduced.

One P38 pilot from the PTO said that the pilots in the ETO were using cruise settings that PTO pilots used for climbing.

Offline bozon

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2004, 08:15:49 AM »
from everything I've read, P-38 did not preform well at the high alts typical for 8th AF operations. They had freezing propblems (of both the plane and the pilots) and the low mach limit really hurt them way up.

In the MTO and 9th AF operations, typical altitues were lower and when not compressing and flown by de-frosted pilots, P38s proved to be formidable fighters.

Bozon
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Offline SELECTOR

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2004, 09:15:57 AM »
hi bozon! my wife had a baby boy ..

Offline Guppy35

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2004, 01:35:57 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by bozon
from everything I've read, P-38 did not preform well at the high alts typical for 8th AF operations. They had freezing propblems (of both the plane and the pilots) and the low mach limit really hurt them way up.

In the MTO and 9th AF operations, typical altitues were lower and when not compressing and flown by de-frosted pilots, P38s proved to be formidable fighters.

Bozon


The pilots in the Med didn't care for the early 38 cockpit heating either.  a 1st FG pilot I've corresponded with mentioned they'd wrap Yank magazines around their legs to try and give themselves some insulation from the cold.

The bigger point is the 8th made their decisions on the 38 based on earlier models.  The Js and Ls were certainly up to anyone's standards as a competant day fighter.

The guys who trained in 38s and flew them from the beginning loved them

An interesting note in the wartime history of the 436th FS, 479th FG is the comments about how the pilots being assigned to them as replacements had been trained on 51s and didn't know the 38 well.  The old hands who knew the 38 never really came to love the "Spam Can" P51 like they did the 38, but as the replacement pool of pilots was mainly P51 trained it hastened the transition.

The pilots in the MTO were 38 pilots from the start and stayed with it and knew how to get the most out of it.

They gladly took the cast off 38s from the 8th AF groups.

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Offline bozon

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The P-38L and the ETO...
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2004, 08:31:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SELECTOR
hi bozon! my wife had a baby boy ..

HEY HEY! CONGRATS DADY SEL! :D

Bozon
Mosquito VI - twice the spitfire, four times the ENY.

Click!>> "So, you want to fly the wooden wonder" - <<click!
the almost incomplete and not entirely inaccurate guide to the AH Mosquito.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOWswdzGQs