Author Topic: Turn and Burn  (Read 1553 times)

Offline Duedel

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« on: December 04, 2001, 03:43:00 AM »
Was asking me why the Hurricane IIc is used so seldom in the MA (take a look at the stats for tour 22). I like this plane and think its competitive with most of the other TnB planes like Spit V, 109F4...
The only ac that's really hard to fight is the zeke.
Whats ur opinion about TnB planes? Which's ur favorite and why?

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2001, 06:25:00 AM »
The hurri's ammo load out makes it a bit of a one kill wonder, and; after scoring the kill, your left with a slow flight home with no ammo to land it...

T'n'B' rules! And the Spit rules the TnB'ers!

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2001, 06:48:00 AM »
Yep thats totally right seeker but compared to a spit 9 i think the Hurri is the better tnb plane caused by its great manoeuverability (really dont know if this word exists in english  :D ).
Never flown a spit 5 so i couldn't argue about it. Is it a better turner? Does it regain E better as Zeke or Hurri? What counts most in tnb, turn radius...?

Offline Seeker

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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2001, 07:10:00 AM »
compared to a spit 9 i think the Hurri is the better tnb plane caused by its great manoeuverability

The greater manouverability (yep, it's an english word, but never, ever ask me how it's spilt) gives you more "wiggle room" to avoid an attack, but the relatively weak power limits your attack options; and, as I said earlier, your ammo load doesn't help if you need to shoot after some one running away at high speed.

Remember, the two versions of the Hurri we have in AH were actually the RAF's attempt at a Stuka copy, we don't have the "dogfighting" version of the battle of Britain (yet). Compared to a Stuka, it's a fantastic A2A fighter, but compared to a "real" fighter, it's dead (unless you're fighting an idiot, as so often happens).

For example, you mention it's more manoverable than a Zeke, which it is. But a Zeke pilot who's worth his salt will simply point his nose up hill and spiral climb you, you have no answer for this in a Hurri...

Never flown a spit 5 so i couldn't argue about it. Is it a better turner?

SpitV is a very tight turner, perhaps not as tight as a Hurri or a Zeke at low speed, but at high speed...

 Does it regain E better as Zeke or Hurri?

Yes, so much so it can be a problem.

"What counts most in tnb, turn radius...?"

Kind of, but this is A2A stuff, so turn radius in which plane? You can go roundy-roundy up and down as well as left-right. Additionaly, there's at least two "types" of turn radius. There's the aero eqivalent of a handbrake turn, when you dive on some one at high speed and they dodge - so you roll over and pull as haaard as you can - this is instantaenous turn rate, and poor E retention can be an advantage as you slow dramaticaly in the turn, which tightens the turn. Hurri's are very good at this.

And, there's the situation when your chugging around in a very tight turn at low speed, waiting for the other guy to stall or make a mistake - this is sustained turn rate - and the Spit V and Zeke will eat you, especially if they start spiraling up hill, your hurri doesn't have the power to follow them up.

Besides, what makes a great T'n'B'er isn't nessacarily great turn rates, but more quick ness of response, and that changes at different speeds.

Try flying the Hurri like a baby jug. Get high, find a furball and blast into it from above. You'll find the hurri (and it's relationship to other planes) very different at high speed, and you can get some great fun kills bouncing planes that would ordinarily think themselves safe from you. If you can dive on a pony at about 300 mph, you can expect to be called a cheat 30 secs later, he'll have no idea how you did what you did  :)

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2001, 07:36:00 AM »
Great, interesting post seeker. Thank you very much.

Seeker:
And, there's the situation when your chugging around in a very tight turn at low speed, waiting for the other guy to stall or make a mistake - this is sustained turn rate - and the Spit V and Zeke will eat you, especially if they start spiraling up hill, your hurri doesn't have the power to follow them up.

This explains a lot of my deaths against this ac in a hurri. Also i'll try your suggestion to "bounce" down in a furball sounds really funny. I hope i can implement that.

Again thx  :)

Offline air_guard

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« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2001, 08:07:00 AM »
I had 61 kills and 21 deaths in the hurricane tour 22.
And only used it when base was vulched or many incoming conns, I had no time to get alt anyway then.
all in all its the best base defender i guess if youre outnumbered toghter with the nik.
It seems like the hurricane can turn and burn down to 100mph and no other craft in here can do that.
If your aiming is ok 5 to 6 kills is no problem with those cannons per sortie without rearming.
well thats my experience, but have too say i would never take it further away  more than 5 miles from home base hehe.

airguard

Offline Nifty

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« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2001, 09:12:00 AM »
I use the Hurri IIc for my attack sorties.  She carries 2000lbs of bombs and is obviously the most nimble of any plane that carries that much ordnance.

Spit V is the best plane for TnB for me.  The performance loss of it vs. the Spit IX is minimal and the perk gains from it are amazing.  ENY of 30 as opposed to 18 for the Spit IX.  Anyways, you lose some horsepower (affects climb, accel, and top speed) but you turn tighter.

As for the Hurri IIc ammo load out, I disagree with Seeker.  I hardly ever use the Brownings in the Spit V for fighting, just the cannons.  The Spit V carries 2 cannons for 240 rounds total (120 rpg).  The Hurri IIc carries 4 cannons for a total of 364 rounds (91 rpg).  You can fire the Hurri IIc guns in banks of two (exact same firepower I use in Spit V), giving you 2 cannons with 182 rounds and then 2 more cannons with 182 rounds.  So when I'm out of cannon ammo and reduced to using Brownings in the Spit V, I've still got 124 cannon rounds in the Hurri IIc.
proud member of the 332nd Flying Mongrels, noses in the wind since 1997.

Offline Duedel

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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2001, 02:47:00 AM »
OK next round (great posts thx guys).
What about the german and italian planes (109F4, 190A5, 205)? I found these are examples of TnB planes that are inferior to those discussed before (in a TnB fight) but if u take attention at your E and fly them a little bit like a BnZ plane (especially the 190A5) the avantage is on your side, assuming u have more E at the beginning. If your co E you better run.

Offline Rocket

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« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2001, 10:57:00 AM »
One thing to remember.  All planes are Angles(TnB) fighters and All planes are Energy(BnZ) fighters.  It is all dependent on what your opponant is flying.  Spit vs 109G10 or P51 .. spit is angles fighter and the G10/P51 would be energy fighter.   Spit vs Zero.  The spit now is the energy fighter.

A dogfight ends up being a combination of both styles of fighting.  Even in an angles fight the guy with the most E may be able to pull off an end game move that his/her opponant may not be able to follow.  The energy fight may end up with both planes turning for an angles ending.  

To me learning both styles of fighting and know how your opponants plane stacks up against yours is the key to winning fight.

S!
Rocket

Offline Am0n

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« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2001, 11:28:00 AM »
1 vrs 1 TNB fighting i'd like to have a zero or a 202 any day. That is of course if the fight was at 5k so they couldnt dive from you. that is what really kills the Zero is if someone dives.. its a instant out card for them, it cant barely get over 400 mph and even then it is nothing more than a torpedo flying through the air, unable to turn or roll.

In the past month ive become a huge fan of the Zero, decent guns and if you play your cards right you can force just about anyone to angle fight you. If they do, 9 outta 10 times you will eat them up.

I dont think many people in AH know how good the Zero can turn, ive had countless sorties where i'll six someone who is driving a spitIX or N1k2 and they try to flat turn to get me to over shoot, you can turn inside them the whole time if you wish, kills E but you can, the same applies for the 202, it has weak guns but it doesnt matter much when they cant shake you, it has plenty of ammo.

The Zero rolls VERY VERY poorly, scisoring one that has 6'd you is a very good idea.

One thing that gives the 202 the upper hand is that it is probably the most underestimated AC in the game, easily underestimated because they are encountered rarely. It dives well for a angel fighter, and handles awesomely at slow speeds. The guns are not as bad as some would think, ive beat a 190 HO before, killed la7's in one burst. Its all about where you aim those .50 cals(or 12.77mm for the non-mericans hehe). Its a all around great ride, you just cant spray and prey with its guns.

So for TNB i'll use a 202 or Zero (A6M) my self  :)

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2001, 01:04:00 PM »
Hurri has a very short clip, and any of the other planes can disengage from it easily if they don't want to fight, and if you run out ammo you have a snowball's chance in hell of getting home safe.  It's a good attack plane.