Author Topic: HELP NEEDED  (Read 1083 times)

Shotter

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HELP NEEDED
« on: July 09, 2000, 03:40:00 AM »
I have this small problem of having a distinct alt advantage over an opponent and giving it all away and diving for the ground trying to outrun the bugger...heres what happens. im flying at him hes flying under me im level and he seems level..and when i think he is right under me i go inverted and look up making sure he is there...i cut throttle and pull straight  back on stick trying to come down on his six and blast him but some how i never find him when im under and level i look around and hes on my tail now i dive and dive and rat tat tat im going down in a blaze of stupidity...i need a good move to kill some bastages when i have alt advantage....Also when im real high like im at 20k and hes at like 10k or 8k how can i get down to him without going so fast that i freakin overshoot him and have to practically hit the ground with throttle cut and im still doing 450 plus...

Thx for your help
Shotter

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Rat tat tat!!!! TAKE A DIRT NAP!

Offline Jekyll

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HELP NEEDED
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2000, 04:57:00 AM »
In relation to your first question (HO pass with con below you), it sounds as though you are diving below his altitude when you split S.  If you are split-Ssing (is there such a word?) at high speed, remember that you will make a HUGE turning circle.  If he sees you coming down, and starts a zoom climb, you'll probably pass beneath him at high speed, all he has to do then is roll inverted, dive after you and kill you when you try to recover.

So, Rule 1.  If you're gonna split S, make sure you have the room to do it    In a fighter like a P47, P51 or 190 I would never think of doing a split S on a lower fighter unless he is at least 2000 feet below me, preferably more.

Rule 2.  Don't split S when he's directly below you.  Your approach angle will be awfully steep, inviting you to overshoot below his altitude if you miss the shot.  Instead, fly straight ahead until he's about 1500 yds behind you, then split S.  If you drop a little below his altitude, don't worry.. you'll be going like a bat out of hell and gaining on him.  Stay slightly below his altitude until you are near guns range, then begin a gentle climb to take your shot.  This does two good things for you.

1.  Since you are already climbing slightly, if you should happen to miss your shot you can do a low g 45 degree zoom climb above him and regain your energy.

2.  Since you are coming from low to high, the enemy will most likely make a nose low turn to evade your shot, burning off his own energy.

OK, in relation to your second question (excess speed on the dive), cut throttle, barrel roll on the way down (a nice little energy burner) or do mid G 'S' turns on the way down to control your closure.

Best advice of all?  Drop by the TA some time and watch someone else fly the moves.  Ride as an observer for a couple of hops and see how other pilots fly in the same situation.

Hope this helps.



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Offline Minotaur

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  • Posts: 130
HELP NEEDED
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2000, 08:26:00 AM »
Keep in mind that alot of players "play" this "lame duck" attack.  By this I mean even though they are below you, you are Co-E with them.  They are flying very fast.

Try not to get fooled.  Make a few tentative passes or what ever you need to do to get a better fix on the E of your bandit.  Swoop down on it, and pull up short.  If the bandit pulls up and matches your zoom altitude, you could be Co-E.

A tactic I personally like is similiar to this.  I am lower and faster.  At the merge my attacker is nose down and I am nose up.  

This is a good situation for me.  I am gaining altitude, slowing down and my turn radius is small.  He is losing altitude, gaining speed and his turn radius often becomes enormous.  I like my odds in those cases...

Good Luck!  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

"So what do you post here? Poetic love letters?"
Ram

Offline humble

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HELP NEEDED
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2000, 12:40:00 PM »
Shotter...welcome to AH ....this is a pretty typical problem at all levels. Basically you can be in 3 ( or maybe 6) tactical situations in AH Pos alt/E, nuetral alt/E, Neg alt/E.

Suprisingly, most of us, myself included go thru periods were the Pos alt/E setup is the hardest. A couple of general concepts can help you find the bottom rung of the ladder.

1) always maintain a view of your target.
2) always add an "out of plane" component (i.e. try and be above and to one side for ex) initially.
3) Use the "falling leave" attack...multiple pass's topping out above target..kind of a zizgzag like leave makes. The goal is make him use E to re orient to each pass you make
4) Keep the eng goal in mind...you want to create constant pressure resulting in a situation where he is in a very low E state and you are 1 to 1 1/2 turn diamater's over him (2.0 lets say)...now you can point your nose down at him and roll with any turn he makes to saddle up.

I'm sure any of the trainers will be happy to work with you on this one.

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

eskimo

  • Guest
HELP NEEDED
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2000, 01:04:00 PM »
The single greatest advice for all dogfighting was stated by humble's first rule:

"1) always maintain a view of your target."

Even if you make a mistake, you will at least learn what the heck happened!

eskimo

Shotter

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HELP NEEDED
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2000, 10:33:00 PM »
Thanks guys i appreciate all of your help...ill try em in the sky and now that i know who to look for ill prolly stop by the TA...see you in the skys


Shotter

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Rat tat tat!!!! TAKE A DIRT NAP!