Author Topic: Do you guys remember Bush's promise on Social Security? (Read 981 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 21, 2005, 10:53:40 AM »

MZ what I get out of that is that he wants the employee to pay for his benifiet...

In most cases the entire 7% is paid by the employer. We just negotiated for a better plan but had to pay for it.... it was like 1.5% cost to us.

I see nothing wrong with this. Since Pers members don't pay SS at all they are pretty much getting a 7-10% bennie by having the employer pay for the pers.

Some will still pay this as an incentive to get new employees... If not.... no big deal. It is like any other (in this case state) benifiet... you either get it or you don't... It is no different than say suggesting that employees pay a percentage of rising health care costs.

It appears that Arnie is asking state employees to pay a share or all of their pers benifiets... He would offer also the ability to opt out if this seemed to expensive or odious to employees.

Even if the employee paid the entire 7% he would still be way ahead of the poor socialist schmo who was stuck with SS... wouldn't you agree?

Also with pers... you can cash out at any time.... take your entire contribution out in cash... You can also pay it back if you feel you made a mistake later on.

Sandman · « **Reply #46 on:** January 21, 2005, 10:59:35 AM »

Lots and lots of prisons to pay for.

lazs2 · « **Reply #47 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:11:16 AM »

so sandie... what is your point? we should close the prisons or....

we should cut back to pay for em? making an employee pay for his own pension seems reasonable to me... same for healthcare but.. You cut deep enough and you won't be able to keep good people.

If I had my choice of closing prisons or stopping welfare benifiets say for the second baby by an unwed mother.... Sorry... rather keep the bad guys locked up.

either we can afford to pay benifiets or not. Both sides will get to argue their case.

lazs

Sandman · « **Reply #48 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:12:55 AM »

I think we should take a good hard look at who we are locking up. I believe that the drug war is costing us billions.

lazs2 · « **Reply #49 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:19:54 AM »

I have no problem with looking at laws and getting rid of some of the more silly ones but.... if you simply made drugs legal with no restrictions you would cause all kinds of related crime... If you make restrictions you still create criminals..

please lay out in detail how you would reform the current drug laws so that the prison population would decrease. Please explain how those who make a living by having drugs illegal will now all become law abiding accountants.

lazs

Sandman · « **Reply #50 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:31:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
if you simply made drugs legal with no restrictions you would cause all kinds of related crime...

What makes you think this is true?

lazs2 · « **Reply #51 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:36:37 AM »

are you claiming that the only crimes that drug users and drug dealers commit are dealing and possesion? Are you claiming that drug laws do not slow drug use?

lazs

Sandman · « **Reply #52 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:39:44 AM »

I think there are lessons to be learned from Prohibition. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

lazs2 · « **Reply #53 on:** January 21, 2005, 11:56:09 AM »

Not sure that you can put most drugs in the same class as booze... users or substance. The effects are different also.

I have no problem with reforming drug laws but it needs to be done slowly IMO.

and... we still need the prisons for now even if you turn out to be right so.... we need to cut back on freebies from the government (people paying taxes). The people deserve to have the criminal off the street. They don't really deserve to have everything paid for by the state including their mistakes.

lazs