Author Topic: help a rookie with tactical flying.  (Read 520 times)

Offline Am0n

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« on: August 29, 2001, 08:25:00 AM »
Ok you have to excuse my ignorance this is the first flight sim i have played, and i REALY enjoy it so im here to stay..
My knowledge of flying was ruined buy unrealistic combat sims like "after burner" for example so bare with me.

When i try to make a tight 180 turn to flank a enemy i always staw and plumit to earth. Now i have found a way that i can pull it off, but i loose speed. The way i do it (when i do it successfully) is drop the nose for speed and drop the throttle down LOW and then pull my wings in a 90' angle and pull up, dropping the throttle seems to make me pull less Gs. Is this the proper way to do this? the enemy always seems to be turned around and on my 6 before i can get my self turned around. Another tecnique i find effective is to again turn my wings to the left at a 90' angle and pull the rudder to the left until i am facing nearly strait down and then gently pull up and releasing the rudder and gaining altitude.
When making manuevers like these should i be cutting the engine throttle? it seems to make me black out less but im a serious rookie as you can see so i dont know whats best.
Anyone recomend a good rookie plane? somehting that is less forgiving than others to error?
One more question, How high can you normaly get your RPMS to? mine dont ever go above 70% it seems, i use "+" to raise them if the are low but they stop around there, is this normal? everyone seems to out run me, even spitfires =(

thx people!

Offline Ripsnort

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2001, 08:48:00 AM »
Click the Training link in my signature below, there is some good info in there, from combat films, to tips, collected from various sources.

Offline Am0n

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2001, 09:37:00 AM »
Ive been looking at that site, very good info but it still leaves some of my questions un answered, thank you though.
If anyone wants to tackle those pls do, tired of embarasing my self buy crashing in a dog fight.. =(

Offline flakbait

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2001, 10:39:00 AM »
On the AH Setup tab you'll see the Sound button, go in there and find the stall sound. Crank it up to 100% and leave it there, then hit ok and go flying. The instant you hear a growling noise stop pulling up so hard on the stick. Flying in AH is a trick, if anything. These are WW2 aircraft that can do some pretty impressive moves, but they can't maneuver on a dime. Well, the Zeke can if you know what you're doing. Anyway, watch your speed carefully all the time and don't try yarfing it into a sharp turn. Your speed will bleed off and you'll go splat, just like you've reported doing. Try a Spitfire or the Zero for a while until you get the hang of it. Both can turn dang well and sometimes you can play the speed-fight game with the P-47's and Fw-190s. Two things to remember are...

The white needle is your air speed, the red marker is your ground speed (aka true air speed). Trust the WHITE marker! The red one tells you how fast you're going over the ground, not through the air! As a result you could be at 30,000 feet doing 400mph ground speed, but stalling because your actual speed is only 140mph. So watch that white needle carefully.

When you're turning hard and you hear that growling sound, ease up on the stick. You won't stall it as fast. If you've got the altitude, dive to get some speed built up. If you yarf on the stick hard you could end up in a spin, so try to avoid doing that. Use smooth control movements to move quickly instead of sharp jerks. Now if the other guy is shooting at you, jerk on that stick all you want!


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Flakbait [Delta6]
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"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think my maker wants to hear from me right now. I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

 

Offline Rocket

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2001, 03:43:00 PM »
Am0n give me a shout in email.

rocket@wardogs.org

I am an AH trainer and would be happy to hookup  with ya if we can get a time/day together  ;)

S!
Rocket

Offline Tozza

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2001, 07:53:00 PM »
Am0n
Dunno if this will help but it did it 4 me
Ive been on for 3 months and was getting nowhere and since I altered my joystick settings Ive progressed from "terrible" to "still quite bad" in just a week.

Goto joystick setup (the one with all the sliders) and select roll in top left.Then move sliders to they look like the right half of the letter "U"

Also-one bad bellybutton mistake I used to make-Learn the planes-I spent 2 months trying to shoot down spits and nikis in a low slow twisty fight in my 109 (bad idea)-Alteres joystick settings and started flying spit5 and started taking guys out.

Hope I've been of some help

Offline LtHans

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2001, 01:19:00 AM »
I would not cut the throttle if I were you.  You need that power to keep you moving, and turning is slowing you down so you need it more than ever.

The only time you need to throttle back is when in a steep dive, landing, or when your pulling up behind a slower target.

Other than that, leave the throttle wide open and the War Emergency Power (WEP) on.

The N1K2 seems to be the favorite plane of new players, as well as the Spitfire.  Both are fairly manueverable, though the N1K2 is also faster and better armed.

Offline Kweassa

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2001, 01:32:00 AM »
Throttle control is fairly important in turning, and there are both advantages and disadvantages in cutting throttle in tight turns. It takes some judgement.

 If I am absolutely sure that this one super-tight turn will give me the final coup-de-grace, hell, ya, I'd cut throttle, pull flaps, even lower gear if i have to.

 Usually, unless you are very very sure that no matter what your target does, he cannot escape from you (something like both planes at deck, low in speed, the guys about 800 yards from you, and yer flying a Spit while he's a 190...), just plain following all those zig zag turns is not a good idea, no matter how well your plane turns.

 To answer your question, yes, cutting down throttle in tight turns is in fact the way it is done. And the second one you depicted is also the way it is done - in fact, that's the starting flick of the Low Yo-yo ACM.

 I suggest you try the maneuver called High Yo-yo. Especially if the target is turning very tightly, and all you can do is get a blind lead.

Offline Am0n

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2001, 07:38:00 AM »
thx guys, all of you for your input.

Ive gotten much better at flying and shooting since i last posted, keeping my plane in the air is not longer the problem. Now i need to work on manuevering (spelling) and shooting. ive been target practicing on the drones, but one can only fly in circle for so long!! =]

My biggest problem i seen was i was trying to fly a boom and zoom style plane in a turning fight, im keen on the F4, but once i zoom in and make the mistake of pursuing someone (turning) i get nailed. I use 3 planes now ussualy, 205, Seafire, F4. Most people would scoff at the Seafire but i like how light it is and low alt fighting abilities. I was liking the 202 until i found out the 205 was faster, you may not believe it but i killed 3 planes in one flight with the 202s pea-shooters.

seafire: defense
205: defense/attacking w/ a small group
F4: Attackin w/ a large group

Also im flying all with out "combat trim" i here that makes you turn sharper, i dont have problems with it off. And im not using tracers, i dont like how they give up your position and are missleading, id rather just know my guns range/effectiveness and it works quiet well for me so far.

Heres what i ask:

Boom and Zoom fighting using a F4, if you are good at this please gimme a few tips, i get caught zooming sometimes and i think im doing somehting wrong, just gimme some general info.

does anyone know a good source for the AC stats?

thx again all

Offline Lephturn

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2001, 09:07:00 AM »
Do not disable combat trim unless you are aware of how to use the auto-trim modes and the manual trim keys to control your trim.  For most new pilots I recommend you use combat trim until you can maintain about a 1:1 Kill/Death ratio in your favourite aircraft.  At that point you may want to look into using manual trim instead, especially if you fly a TnB type of fighter at low speed using flaps.

I have not updated this in too long, but I have some info on the auto-trim modes and how they work here:  http://lephturn.webhop.net/trim.htm

You should also be sure to go over the view system article I have up here:  http://lephturn.webhop.net/views.htm

But basically, you should be using combat trim OR some combination of auto-trim modes and manual trim adjustment to keep your plane in trim.  It is using manual trim that some folks say will give you a turning advantage in some situations, but disabling combat trim alone will only hurt your performance.  I find that especially in the BnZ role where you are changing speeds a great deal, combat trim is very effective.  I rarely, infact almost never, turn off my combat trim while flying the P-47.  The only time I go to manual trim is to pull out of extremely high speed dives or in low speed turning engagements where I am using flaps.  In those cases I just use the manual trim keys and that automatically shuts off the combat trim.  You can then turn on combat trim again simply by using any of the auto-trim modes.

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Lephturn ]

Offline Syzygyone

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2001, 10:23:00 AM »
Well, you are doing the right thing so far.  That is ask questions.  These guys will always be helpful, even for brick heads like me.  They don't make you feel as stupid as I really am.  And read read read.  I have progressed from pathetic to pretty awful to terrible to barely ok sometimes maybe in about 30 days of "studying" what these guys have to say.
Couple of thoughts though which I found helpful.
Drones - Don't just follow in circles.  That is basic tracking practice at it's most boring.  ONce you get to where you can make then splode, instead of justg smoke, move on to different kinds of attacks, always looking to see what kind of lead (deflection) you need to use in certain situationss.  The drones don't vary their flight so it doesn't give you good training unless you vary your attacks. i.e. Try B & Z on the drones,from all different angles.  Try to learn how to recognize and stop and overshoot (wish I could).  There's much more there than first meets the eye.

Tracers: I use 'em and when I finally read and understood about projecticel drop and the effect of Gs on shooting, I began to make better attacks.  I used the tracers to tell me where the bullets were going and, after reading the above info, it was much easier to make the necessary corrections.

Films: Also, download all the films you can.  If possible, watch the film from both external and cockpit views.  External lets you understand the dynamic between both attacker and target but cockpit view is what you need to view to learn to actually do the maneuver.

Views:  Go the Leph site and memorize absolutely the view stuff, head position, zoom, hat settings, etc.  I have the worlds worst SA but it is not because I don't know the views.  I was totally unable to do anyting other than the very occasional B & Z snap shot or the lucky zoom into a stalling target until I practiced with the views.  The best one is, as Leph says, set your views, the go fly around an airfield and keep a single point in view.  Also, that's a good thing for the drones too.  "Attack" from different angles and fly around them and try to keep them in view.  

SA - Situational awareness - my biggest weakness. I get shot down more often then not by someone I didn't even know was there.  Many will use the Check 6 call out of pity, I am sure.  But, if you do check six regualrly, you can avoid these  :eek:   suprises

Also, and lastly but not leastly, take these guys up on their offer to train.  Nothing beats actually doing the ACM's with good pilots in oppositions.  Dont' get frustrated.  Just watching how they fly and what they do in certain situations is learning.  

Best of luck to ya!

  :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:   :rolleyes:

Offline Am0n

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2001, 10:37:00 AM »
So combat trim keeps your plane in trim at all times? (so if you dive it auto-maticly adjust to suit your speed/angle?) i noticed sometimes my plane is hard to level and others at the same alt/speed it is a breeze(with combat trim off) That is problaly due to having just used the Angle trim (which i use a lot) and it adjusting my plane to fly at the speed it is at.. hurm

I checked out your veiw adjustment tutorial a week or so ago, good stuff.

Thx again

any tips on BnZ?

Offline SKurj

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2001, 11:18:00 AM »
Combat trim is not perfect Am0n by design.  At extreme hi speeds and at very low speeds combat trim may work against you slightly.

I've always used combat trim, and likely always will

SKurj

Offline Syzygyone

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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2001, 01:14:00 PM »
Here's a site for plane specs.
Good luck!
  :D
Hoofs Warbird Specs

[ 09-06-2001: Message edited by: Syzygy ]

Offline Lephturn

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help a rookie with tactical flying.
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2001, 02:50:00 PM »
Skurj is correct, Combat Trim gets you "close" to a trimmed condition.  It's not as exact as the auto-trim modes or manual trim, but it makes the adjustments continually and instantly.

Combat trim is basically a table of pre-set trim conditions that roughly correspond to various speed ranges when the plane is in a clean condition (no flaps/dive flaps/gear deployed/external stores).  In addition, it appears that the set of trim pre-sets that combat trim uses gets farther out of whack at the extreme ends of the flight envelope.  What combat trim does well is a rough adjustment very quickly at broad speed ranges in the middle of the flight envelope.  For example, if I am BnZing with my Jug, going from 150 Mph, diving to 400, and zooming back up, Combat Trim will constantly adjust as the speed changes, and do so very quickly even as I use the control surfaces.  It is very difficult, if not impossible, to do that with manual trim.

The best compromise is to always have Combat Trim enabled in AH setup.  For most of your flying and fighting, you want to leave CT on and working.  You will want to go to manual trim if trying to pull out from very high speed dives.  If you are engaged in very low speed maneuvers, you will want to use some manual trim, as CT doesn't seem to give you enough (usually nose up) trim at very low speeds.  If you deploy any kind of flaps, use manual trim, since the CT trim pre-sets don't compensate for the effects of the flaps.

The great thing is that simply hitting a manual trim key will disengage the CT during a fight instantly.  This means you can use Combat Trim for the things it is good at, and when the fight degenerates into a minimum speed stall fight on the deck, you can pop flaps and start using the manual trim to help ensure you get full control authority.  When the fight changes, a quick set of one of the auto-trim modes and CT is back on and working for you.  It is a great system, very flexible.