Author Topic: And pigs will fly  (Read 4027 times)

Offline moot

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And pigs will fly
« Reply #180 on: November 12, 2005, 11:25:07 PM »
creo quia absurdum, or how to go nowhere, fast.
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Offline hacksaw1

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« Reply #181 on: November 13, 2005, 11:19:33 AM »
It is amusing that this thread would be labeled in a sarcastic swipe "and pigs will fly." In fact the inverse sense demanded by the sarcasm, "and pigs will NEVER fly," is quite along the lines of the creationist idea of "stasis of kinds" promoted in the Bible.  A thinking evolutionist would never say "and pigs will never fly" because for the evolutionist anything is possible (even if time is not on your side to do it stochastically). Why won't pigs eventually evolve the ability to fly, oh ye evolutionists of little faith?

In the meantime, please pardon us theists if we also happen to agree that pigs will never fly. We know, flying AH, that configuring a good FM is not easy, even with dedicated intelligent designers. And in the real world we have fish that fly, all kinds of insects that fly, all kinds of birds that fly, some mammals that fly, gliding lizards, and have even got bones of dinosaurs that fly (some with greater wingspan than many planes). Random, materialistic "Evolution" just threw boxcars in all these major phyla to give them an extraordinary locomotive capability - flight. OOookay!

The theory behind ID has value in science as a forensic tool, among others. If an array of items can be shown formally to have arisen by design vs stochastically, or stochastically vs by design, then that obviously is of value in many ways in many different areas of research, including the cracking of codes. The theorists of ID mathematically formalize probabilities and thresholds of stochastically arranged items verses by design.

Growing up a committed naturalist, I for one would have appreciated finding out in my science courses that such a leading evolutionist as the co-discoverer of the helical structure of DNA, Francis Crick, considered the conditions of early earth hostile to an abiogenic formation of life, and as a result promoted the idea of directed panspermia by intelligent beings using interstellar rockets.
 
directed panspermia

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Cement

Offline moot

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« Reply #182 on: November 13, 2005, 01:37:13 PM »
The point was whether to teach it as science, or not.
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Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #183 on: November 13, 2005, 03:25:34 PM »
"Yesterday I read a book.  Therefore the book is red."


- exerpt from "Teh Universe is teh LOGIKCAL!", by NUKE

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #184 on: November 13, 2005, 03:48:12 PM »
All of the matter in the universe popped into existence one day at random
which then led to life creating itself one day, followed by it reproducing itself, then morphing into humans.

I miss the old days of the universe, back when there were no laws or physics. Seems like miracles used to happen..... and things got done!

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #185 on: November 13, 2005, 04:26:26 PM »
Scientist:  We don't know what caused the Big Bang.

NUKE:  Because scientists don't know what caused the Big Bang, it must have been a super natural cause.  


Wait a second where have I heard that line of reasoning before.

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/distract/ig.htm


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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #186 on: November 13, 2005, 04:40:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
Scientist:  We don't know what caused the Big Bang.

NUKE:  Because scientists don't know what caused the Big Bang, it must have been a super natural cause.  

Wait a second where have I heard that line of reasoning before.

http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/distract/ig.htm


:aok


Actually, I have said that it just as logical to consider an intelligent creator. It's actually more sensible to consider an intelligent creator as an option than it is to rule it out.

But you would know that if you have read anmy of my arguments here. I never once said that since science doesn't have an answer, that it must have been super natural.

On the other hand, the Big Bang theory relies on the super natural too. It's super natural for matter and energy to be created and explode into existence one day.

Offline moot

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« Reply #187 on: November 14, 2005, 12:39:25 AM »
Nuke, what's the practical use of admitting a supernatural, and therefore unpredictable element?
Its only value is spiritual.
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Offline Vudak

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« Reply #188 on: November 14, 2005, 12:55:19 AM »
My thought on the whole debate...


Any person, who thinks that human beings and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time, really frightens me.


Thank you, that is all.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #189 on: November 14, 2005, 01:26:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by moot
Nuke, what's the practical use of admitting a supernatural, and therefore unpredictable element?
Its only value is spiritual.


I'm not sure what you mean by admitting a supernatural. Supernatural is anything that cannot be proven as part of our "natural" world.......things that we know are "real"

I was saying that the big bang theory assumes a "supernatural" event took place. That all the matter and energy of our universe just popped into existence from nothing.

Offline moot

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« Reply #190 on: November 14, 2005, 01:52:00 AM »
The big bang theory says matter came to exist out of the blue?  Can you give a citation?

Anytime you add an element that you can't entirely predict in an otherwise predictable system, you end up with unpredictable output, no matter what the rational/irrational ratio is.

The scientific approach tends away from unpredictablity, slowly but surely at worst.
So can you say what the practical use of something unpredictable might be?
« Last Edit: November 14, 2005, 01:57:33 AM by moot »
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Offline texace

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« Reply #191 on: November 14, 2005, 03:43:00 AM »
After reading the thread in its entirerity, here's a theory.

Nuke continues to say the same thing, over and over, regardless of what he's told.

As far as the discussion, I've watch Cosmos a lot. I tend to believe it because Carl Segan is a pretty smart man. I couple what I've seen there with what I learned in my science classes.

As an ignorant teenager, I fail to see why ID should be anywhere near schools.

Offline midnight Target

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« Reply #192 on: November 14, 2005, 08:32:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hacksaw1

Growing up a committed naturalist, I for one would have appreciated finding out in my science courses that such a leading evolutionist as the co-discoverer of the helical structure of DNA, Francis Crick, considered the conditions of early earth hostile to an abiogenic formation of life, and as a result promoted the idea of directed panspermia by intelligent beings using interstellar rockets.
 
directed panspermia

Best Regards

Cement


I don't know when Crick became a "leading evolutionist", he's always been kind of a crackpot. I found out about Crick's weirdness in freshman chemistry. Maybe you went to a lousy school?

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #193 on: November 14, 2005, 01:31:40 PM »
I, acting upon direction from the Almighty, do declare that this thread should come to an end.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #194 on: November 14, 2005, 01:33:30 PM »
No, wait a minute...

I, acting upon direction from the Noble Science Committee, do declare that this thread should come to an end.

Yeah that's it.
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