Dweebs on the runway

[funked]

OK, Lemme put on my flame-proof outfit.

First off I understand that these guys are just using the tools available to do the job.  Clearly the solution is to change the tools, and I think that's where the sim is going.

Why don't I like the infinite respawn defense?  For me a big part of flight sims is the "suspension of disbelief" where a small part of my brain actually believes I am flying.

However when I see a guy blowing up and magically re-appearing every 5 seconds on the runway, firing guns at paratroopers while on the ground, the little suspension of disbelief bubble goes *poof*.

So thats why I don't like the respawn defense activities.  And I'm really glad they are changing the rules to make it less common.

Some of you asked what I would do in the shoes of the defender.  Well here's what I would do:  Rather than manipulating loopholes in the game to try and save the base, I admit that I have been beaten, show a little class, and concede the field.  Or I go up from another field and smack the snot out of them.

Sorry if I offended anybody.  It's nothing personal, and I can understand the other side's point of view.  I just don't enjoy the effect their activities have on the gameplay.

[Pongo]

Guys.
We are talking about a simulation that uses the capture of airfields by unarmed paratroops to decide victory. Talking about realisim is misplaced.
LOL..really. the ack is too strong, the spits strafe my troops, the vulch is too easy, the bombs are too accurate, he parked at the spawn point.
Its all the same thing. HTC put together a game that stressed the tactical plane on plane aspects of the WW2..of course thats what they worked on first. It will be dificult for them to devolve the game into somthing more realistic as far as victory conditions go. You cant just take one facet of the game out and fix it.   What do you want pilots to do sit on the runway till the base is captured and then get hit by the ack.


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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[Fatty]

What is accomplished under the current situation (which is about to change anyway) is that a field must be taken by a significant force, or there's a good chance it will fail.

Realism in respawn where a country has a total population of 6-20 people just isn't going to happen    Just imagine that one person as a busload of innocent new pilots dying for their country.  Don't drop troops in the line of fire (force spawners to have to start up and turn about before they can fire) and bring more than 1 47 just in case.

I'm probably in the minority, but I'm for making bases harder to take, not easier (also for stronger ack!  Woohoo!  ).  It's all about to change anyway, but I'm sure there will be something about the new method that brings out gripes.

 



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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS

[Fishu]

Pyro said something about disabling vehicles at the field when some buildings are destroyed... how it was written, sounds like planes will have same thing.
maybe we'll get closed fields in next version with vehicles?

[Fury]

 

Originally posted by Kieren:
Let's not confuse what we wish it was like with the reality.

I don't want to get vultched incessantly, but will endure it to save a field. Failure to do so is tantamount to giving up. This is what is not being explained by anyone; what other choice is there for an isolated base?

If everytime 5 cons roll up on a field with ack suppressed we all ignored the base, yes, there would be no endless spawning, and the capture could occur uninterrupted. But where is the game then? If we have to willingly surrender any base that has dead ack and is not a quick flight from a friendly base, where is the game?

So now, imagine in our 3-country setup 2 big sides jump the small side. Down to 3 bases, should the low side's pilots just sit in the tower? This seems to be the thought, and I can't fathom it.

All this is soon to be moot with the advent of vehicles and destroyable spawn points. I am for closable fields, make no doubt about it, but as long as I can launch, I will. I am not about to sit in the tower and watch the arena become the playground of the other 2 sides.    

Again, this is not what I wish was, it's what is.

I am not meaning to pick on you Kieren but I just want to spam a few words on this.

This thread started out discussing a certain player who spawned over and over and over just to shoot ground troops - starting your engine and driving on the ground or pointing your nose at troops -- that's the part that I don't like.  I have no problem at all with the idea of taking off from a vulched base.  I will never drive my air machine along the ground to rip up troopers.

Endless spawning to get into the air, fine.  Endless spawning to sit there and shoot troops, or drop your own troops, I personally will never do it.  

Down to three bases, should the low country sit in the tower?  No.  Should the low country resort to shooting troopers from the runway, without trying to take off?  Not me.

I think this topic is becomming a very mixed bag of topics and people are misreading or reading too much into each other.  The topic was originally about sitting on the runway shooting troops, not about how to defend a base.

To address your point about the isolated base.  If I am the only guy defending the base and it is isolated, and my team is not helping me, and I am in the tower, the base will fall, because I will not sit on the runway to shoot troops.  If I am in the air, I will certainly try to strafe the troops.

On a final note, if a C47 makes it to a base and drops, then the team defending their base did not do a good enough job saving the base.  Last minute decisions to sit on the runway and shoot troops does not justify the previous 5-15 minutes of failure to defend the base.

Anyway, with base closures coming up soon, this whole thing will become moot.   I can't wait.

(now I know why I need to stay out of these topics)

again, this is all my opinion and I don't expect anyone to agree.  And I am not singling you out on purpose Kieren.
Fury

[This message has been edited by Fury (edited 03-20-2000).]

[Rojo]

<unzips flameproof suit and bravely steps out of it> Well, I don't know if I'm the lone defender JFalk is talking about, but last night I undertook the defense of 16 against overwhelming odds.  I think I did a fine job, as a matter of fact  .  I was not the ONLY Knight defending it ALL the time, but there were minutes at a time where there appeared to be no other friendlies around.  For what it's worth, I made every effort to get airborne, and killed more than one C-47 before it dropped (despite a spirited vultch). However, if there were troops dropping in front of me, and if my thumb happened to "slip"   and hose a few of them down on my take-off roll, well...so what?  I was in a Spit V, btw; a P-38 would have made hosing troops easier, but I was more interested in getting airborne.

I didn't get mad at the vultchers; I knew I was taking my chances taking off from a well capped field.  As has been pointed out here, there are few options left for an outnumbered country with an isolated base...under the current game set up.  For what it's worth, I'm in total agreement with the majority on the issue of being able to close a base to prevent respawning.  Hopefully, 1.02 will change this aspect of the game.  In the meantime, don't talk about realizm and base capture in the same breath; they're mutually exclusive.

FWIW, I don't EVER park at the respawn point to pick off respawning defenders (the defenders job is hard enough, and this tactic simply isn't cricket), or respawn myself in a C47 to keep dumping troops on my own field.  It's a personal choice.  And if HtC want's to disable ALL guns while your wheels are on the ground, that would be fine with me, too.  My two cents worth.

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Sabre, a.k.a. Rojo
(S-2, The Buccaneers)

[Sn1p3r]

I think it is pretty simple ... tight vulches in a force to keep them down (can't even start engine) or be a little smarter about the drop like Pongo mentioned.  There have been many times where a plane spawned as I was approaching the field and I just adjusted my angle to come in right behind them.  I was able to drop and follow the enemy off the field and by the time they realized I was there, we had the field and the ack tore 'em up.  

If you have already dropped, bug out! .. don't circle the field, stay low and get out of dodge.  If you hang around and a plane spawns, they are going to look for troops already out and strafe 'em.

bah .. my $.02 worth anyway

-Sn1p3r

 

[Kieren]

Fury-

No offense taken, and you make a very valid distinction IMHO. I guess I got caught up in the sweeping generalizations.  

[Tac]

Why not simply have the following:

When Tower, Hangar and runway are down, planes CANT spawn in the field. Historically this would be the same as if the air power of that base was knocked out...and its up to GROUND forces (ack, troops, tanks) to defend it at that point.

After that, if the barracks are blown, no infantry can be spawned in the field. If HT is going to add tanks, I think they should add a "Garage" or something..if that is destroyed,then vehicles will not be spawned there.

Hey, if HT adds infantry, then we should also be able to become the paratroopers eh? GERONIMO!  

Sure hope that HT puts in ground troops, M-1 wielders beware!  

[Pongo]

because 1 40k buff could take out half the country..with 2 buffs...well you do tha math.
There we go with "historically" again.

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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[skeet]

Hi
Never seen this before - how about a finite no. of planes of various mixes on the ground and you leap into what's available - once they've all been strafed to smoking hulks (in their hardened emplacements of course), there just aren't any left.
With some kind of re-supply spawning based on your countries supply/manufacture capacity of course.
Love to see say 3 squadrons of fighters, mixed light bombers etc on the field.
Go to hangar - pick a plane - go for it.
All sorts of ramifications.
After all, with everything down - tower etc, you can still run out of a bunker, start the engine, weave between the bomb craters and take off. Excellent!


(FWIW, I shot some paratroopers whilst scrambling into the air the other day, 'because they were there'. Seemed like a good idea at the time. We all have our own limits eg. I wouldnt drive around doing it. I figure I'm so behind the 8-ball scrambling off a well capped airfield that I'm providing entertainment for the cappers whilst getting a minute chance of knocking one down with some crazy flying. It's exhilarating. 'fraid I didn't consider the gaming the gaming bit much before. Having read this thread through I probably will think more about it).

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skeet - out
Aces High - Fight Stimulator

[This message has been edited by skeet (edited 03-20-2000).]

[Downtown]

I as a rule never shoot anything while I am on the ground.  I get airborne and vulch troops.

Rolling from the ground on the ground with not attempt or effort to get airborne is the sin.

Then you aren't flying, your driving, you need the M-16 with the Quad 50's.



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"Downtown" Lincoln Brown.
  lkbrown1@tir.com  
 http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1
Wrecking Crews "Drag and Die Guy"
Hals und beinbruch!