Author Topic: Just Back From India  (Read 390 times)

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
Just Back From India
« on: April 08, 2006, 11:57:37 PM »
Just got back from India last night from a business trip.  Some background before my observations.  I'm in Global Supply Chain.  I've done this type of work since '95, with most of the Supply Chain work done in HK, China, Thailand, Tawain...etc.  I have done business in Sri Lanka and Pakistan as well.  And I do Supply Chain work in Europe, the UK, and our friendly neighbors, Canada and Mexico.

Money is running to India right now, no question about it.  The biggest hurdle for India to equal or pass China is twofold.  One is that it is a democracy, and the second is related to that democracy and is the creation of the infrastructures necessary to sustain and facilitate the growth.

When I first started traveling to China, I used to enter there from HK to Shenzen.  Back in '95, I think Shenzen had maybe 1.5 to 2 million...maybe not even that.  Now it has to be well over 10 million and growing.  The biggest reason that growth was able to happen was China's governmental ability to just declare and make infrastructure development happen.  Now the Chinese planned well for the HK handover in '99 and improved their port in Yintian because they knew folks (like us) hated having to move our containers out through HK.

India's roads, while improving tremendously in the last 5 years, have a long way to go to.  In fact, until just 3 years ago, much of the city and state road building was done by manual labor and without alot of heavy equipment.  That seems to be changing rapidly.  And electrical power is rationed on a daily basis, or is at least where I conducted business which was in Pune.  Having said that, I see India has plans to add power plants all over the country.

Anyway, from my perspective, which is a manufacturing one (not a software or call center one), that's the challenge for India to manage and overcome.

On the plus side is the ease of communication.  In China, once you wander just slightly away from a major population area where there are alot of ex-pats, then english is not spoken very much.  In India, english is spoken at every level and just about every place due to the requirement that all school children must learn their native dialect, Hindi, and English in grammar school.  To me, that is a huge business advantage for India.

And India's stock market is going crazy right now.

For the Brits, I was in Goa for the India v. England cricket match last week(well not for the match itself, I had suppliers to visit there).  That place went crazy.  When I left last week, I think India had a 4 to nil advantage in the 7 match series.  And an interesting side note...on my flight from Bombay to Goa, I flew via India Air on an Airbus 320.  It was loud as hell, but the excellent Portugese dinner I had that night helped alleviate the A320 induced headache.   Now on my return to Bombay, I flew via Jet Blue on a Boeing 737....I fell asleep it was so quiet.

And Curval...I had lunch on Thursday at the Bombay Cricket Club.  The food was excellent, and aside from the Brits, the atmosphere was great as well :) .  Seriously Curv...if you get over to Bombay, get yourself into there for lunch or dinner.

A small world story...I was having drinks at the hotel lounge waiting to go to the airport to come back to the States ( the flights usually leave Bombay from 1 am to 4 am) for Europe flights, and I was visiting with a Brit, a Sri Lankan, and an Indian gentlemen who was from Bombay, but has lived in Baltimore for a number of years...anyway, he asks were in the US I live, and tell him, and it turns out his daughter lives in the same town I do.

Cuisine...I didn't have a bad meal.  Of course, I like curry to begin with, so that didn't surprise me.  I did try a new dish...a sweet Indian desert made from Water Buffalo milk....it was damn good.

In my opinion India is going to be a major player on the sourcing map (I'm stating the obvious, I know), and will give China a run for it's money.  I don't know if they can overtake them, but it's gonna be a good race.

Offline Yeager

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10167
Just Back From India
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2006, 12:53:56 AM »
and I was visiting with a Brit, a Sri Lankan, and an Indian gentlemen who was from Bombay
====
Dang, sounds like a joke I heard once :O

Good talking points stringer.  As they same back in the old world, let the games begin.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline eagl

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6769
Just Back From India
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2006, 04:13:13 AM »
India has a huge head start this century.

IMO, a big part of that is how they handled the US/UN imposed technology embargo as a result of their nuclear program.  Many other countries when faced with a trade embargo start whining and basically go to hell while blaming the world for their problems.  India took the other road.

India as a nation decided that they were going to enter the modern world regardless, so they started huge education and tech development programs with the intent of developing EVERYTHING necessary to improve everything including agriculture, military, and a dual role space program.  Guess what...  They did it.  I don't think they have an indigenous computer CPU, but they developed everything else themselves.  They have a robust military tech base and what I think is more important, a broad space program based on technology they developed internally while under the international tech embargo.  Yea they put their nukes on their missiles, but they also developed civil use satellites and launchers aimed at improving the welfare of their whole country.  Aviation Week listed some stats showing, for example, how much more efficient their agriculture planning is because of their space imaging program.

They were determined to modernize even if they were cut out of the tech transfer business for a number of years, and they developed a lot more than they would have without the trade restrictions.  They're better off for it, and amazingly enough they don't seem to hold much of a grudge against the UN or the US.

India is up and coming...  They're sort of like the US 50 years ago in terms of economic development and level of national effort.  In an era where every other little craphole in the world is still pooping in their own sandboxes (or rainforests) and whining about how nobody respects them, India is pushing forward and growing stronger every day.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Just Back From India
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2006, 07:25:10 AM »
"And Curval...I had lunch on Thursday at the Bombay Cricket Club. The food was excellent, and aside from the Brits, the atmosphere was great as well  . Seriously Curv...if you get over to Bombay, get yourself into there for lunch or dinner."

We drove past it one day when I went shopping for my wife's X-mas gift in December.  Can anyone just show up there for lunch?  If so I will check it out next time....although I have no idea when that might be.

On that same drive I noticed that guys would just stop at the side of the road, or on bridges, and relieve themselves.  I thought to myself "How disgusting."  Then, on the way home, a drive that should have taken 40 minutes took almost 3 hours because of the traffic.  It was INSANE.  Before we took off I myself needed to take a leak, but figured I'd wait until I got back to the hotel.

Well, we got to a place from which I could see the hotel in the distance, but because of traffic the driver said it was still going to take a half hour.  I asked him if he had a bottle or a can in the car...as by this time I was going to have an accident if I didn't go.  He didn't.  So.....when in Rome and all....I jumped out of the cab, hopped over a railing and tucked myself behind a column that was supporting the main highway which runs through the city and had what can only be described as a religous experience peeing against the pillar.  

While going though, a family that obviously lived under the highway noticed me.  They sent their kids over to beg for money, which was an uncomforatble feeling as I was still holding my wang in my hand.  I zipped up and threw tham a few rupees and I ran back to the car, which had only advanced about 50 yards on the road.

I got back into the car and the concerned driver asking if I was okay.  I told him I was absolutely fine and that he could take his time.  ;)

Bombay is quite a place.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline Krusher

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2246
Re: Just Back From India
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2006, 09:44:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
Money is running to India right now, no question about it.  The biggest hurdle for India to equal or pass China is twofold.  One is that it is a democracy, and the second is related to that democracy and is the creation of the infrastructures necessary to sustain and facilitate the growth.



Its good to see India get its economic act together.  It sounds like you are right on the mark.

Here is an interesting article along the same lines.

link


There are many grounds on which the debate can proceed. The most common analytical technique has been to compare the growth in each nation's gross domestic product (GDP), where China is currently in the lead; it is also ahead in infrastructure, though India leads in personal freedoms.

Arguably the most intriguing of these grounds, although the hardest to pin down, is each country's place in the race to create free, self-governing, independent societies. India is undeniably ahead on democracy, widely seen as a force which adds creativity and dynamism to an economy. But there are two differences of view as to whether this is an advantage or a disadvantage.

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Just Back From India
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2006, 09:51:15 AM »
good story curval.... sooo.. you felt the need to pass judgement on others but feel that when you need to do the same thing as they do....  it's ok because it is..... well..... you?

lazs

Offline FUNKED1

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6866
      • http://soldatensender.blogspot.com/
Just Back From India
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2006, 10:57:05 AM »
I think he just realized that maybe the Indians had it right after all.  Pissing by the side of the highway is a long tradition in my family.

Offline Curval

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11572
      • http://n/a
Just Back From India
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2006, 11:09:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
good story curval.... sooo.. you felt the need to pass judgement on others but feel that when you need to do the same thing as they do....  it's ok because it is..... well..... you?

lazs


If anyone saw me do it I would hope, at least, that they would feel as disgusted as I did seeing others do it.  The only difference is that I would not have stopped in the middle of a brigde, in the middle of the day, and whizzed off it in full view of everyone, or in full view on a regular sidewalk.  I tried to hide myself as best I could and it was pretty dark out.  One family had sight of me, the ones I am "passing judgement on" were potentially seen by like...millions of people.

It is disgusting no matter who does it though.  Humans invented toilets for a reason.  In my case, it was either go where I did or risk staining the driver's seats and puddling up the floor of the car.  I had about three coffees at various stores that day.
Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline StarOfAfrica2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5162
      • http://www.vf-17.org
Just Back From India
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2006, 11:58:13 AM »
This isnt really related to the topic at hand, except in a rather roundabout way, but ..........

Just this past week Hawaii signed an agreement with China to increase the tourist trade back and forth.  We get the Chinese govt. to give us "approved destination" status, and we share expertise with them on how to improve their own tourism industry.  China is in a very good position to put some leverage on the US to make it easier for Chinese to enter the country.  Easing restrictions to allow Chinese citizens to travel more freely into the US as part of a trade agreement that deals with the trade-surplus issue ............

Could have alot of effects far beyond increasing tourism.

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
Just Back From India
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2006, 12:08:02 PM »
nm...I don't want to hijack my own thread :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2006, 12:10:06 PM by Stringer »

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Just Back From India
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2006, 02:03:55 PM »
Growth in India is very industry specific.  Engineering may still be a good growth industry there, but  I think customer service BPO is about tapped and customer satisfaction scores are not so good for voice.  Back-office may have more potential though.

Infrastructure really needs to improve.  Did you try and drive the 75miles from Mumbai to Pune?  It is faster to drive to the airport and hop an India Air flight...just 75 miles.

There are also cultural problems to overcome.  One of my largest issues with the offshore management in our sites in Delhi, Mumbai and Channai is a lack of proactive thinking.  If the process is not clearly defined to the letter, any issue that arises outside of process gets dropped.  Not escallated...but just swept under the rug so as not to endure the embarrasment of admitting lack of knowledge.  Also there seems to be a lack of the Western business world's sense of urgency to resolve issues...very frustrating

My opinion...Philippines is the place to be for BPO.  Voice is outstanding.  Culture is more Western...and management style is too.  Infrastructure seems more mature.  No electricity issues and no telecom issues.  Only downside is less stable govt.

BTW Stringer...glad you didn't get a case of Delhi Belly.  :lol  Couple members on my team got a bad case last trip.

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
Just Back From India
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2006, 02:39:08 PM »
Have you driven the Pune to Mumbai road recently?  I did just last Thursday, it took only about 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours.  We stopped for a Pepsi on the way or it would have been shorter.  The 6 lane expressway is complete and has been for a couple of years.

I did fly from Mumbai to Pune on Monday, and yes it took all of 2 minutes air time, but of course, that doesn't count getting to, and waiting at the airport for our flight to take off.

Hehe...I have managed to avoid the Dehli belly so far!  That buffaloe milk desert did give me a touch of trouble, but a couple of pepto-bismals and I was back in business :)  I think my stomach has been exposed to enough bacteria since '95 that it doesn't get hit as hard as it might have :)  Plus I carry a virtual pharmacy in my briefcase!

I do agree with your cultural observations.  I expierenced a little of that, which was the base reason for this trip, among other things as well.

Offline SOB

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10138
Just Back From India
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2006, 02:39:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Curval
It is disgusting no matter who does it though.  Humans invented toilets for a reason.  In my case, it was either go where I did or risk staining the driver's seats and puddling up the floor of the car.  I had about three coffees at various stores that day.

It's disgusting to pee outdoors?  Are you sure you aren't a chick?
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Just Back From India
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2006, 08:16:11 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Stringer
Have you driven the Pune to Mumbai road recently?  I did just last Thursday, it took only about 1 1/2 hours to 2 hours.  We stopped for a Pepsi on the way or it would have been shorter.  The 6 lane expressway is complete and has been for a couple of years.

The report we got last Sept was that there was some construction, extreeeeemly slow drivers, the occasional ox cart and...cows.  It took the team 4.5 hrs.  That led to the decision to fly for the trip 3 weeks ago.

Might risk it next time if it is as good as you say...Air India scares me. :confused:

Offline Stringer

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
Just Back From India
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2006, 09:02:08 PM »
I saw some monkeys too, actually...hehe.

Once you get from New Bombay into Old Bombay, the traffic gets really bad.

We traveled on a bank holiday, so maybe that had something to do with the quick time, I'm not sure.  The traffic was there but it was moving at a good pace...average maybe 80 km/hour or so.

I'll be heading back there in the fall....Sept/Oct time frame.  If you're there around the sametime, we'll have to have some Kingfishers together :)